SC5: Improved Competitive Ideas

[IdleMind]

If you make throws distinguishable, you are rewarding turtles and punishing offense. Indistinguishable throws promote certain ideas, subtly:

A) If your in a situation where you have to guess, you did something wrong.

B) If you do not want to be in that situation; you must be more proactive that hitting G; like either being on offense, doing TC moves or just plain attacking or in some cases jumping.

Tekken 3, TTT, T5/DR as perfect examples; are largely defensive games. Backdash, guard, see throw, break throw. Let me tell you as a veteran of the Tekken tournament scene; it is NOT fun.

As to your other ideas, I could take or leave them; but it wouldn't be Soul Calibur anymore. My primary point of concern is this idea that you should be able to have a clear option to beat something within the microcosm of that situation; without thinking about how you GOT to that situation in the first place. Actually getting RO'd falls under that too. You didn't magically teleport to the ring edge; you got hit in a bad position; i.e. made a mistake. Don't give people more chances to rectify mistakes, thats how super-turtly and boring fighters are made imo.

-Idle

 

[Malice]

Most of these ideas sound like you guys want this game to turn into Tekken. Just go play Tekken. And I doubt that they will make the game more competitive. SC4 is competitive enough, it's just that players need to actually compete in it.

For the sake of this thread, if there is a SC5, then I would like to see some more flash, polish, and attention to detail to the game as a whole and to do away with the guest/bonus character gimmick so that people take the game more seriously. Critical finished should be treated more as an essential part of the gameplay to keep people from turtling all day like bitches and seen less as just some gimmick. Netcode needs to be improved dramatically. And Namco needs to show more support to the game since most people cannot stick with a fighting game for more than a year these days.

 

[IvyFanboy]

I didn't read the first post but I skimmed over the posts. For what I read, my thoughts:

1. Throws shouldn't be seeable in this game. There are really no unbelievable lows in this game save for Amy's 2B+K (which, by the way, is unsafe and has shit range, but whatever). When you actually learn the game, most of the damage comes from spacing and options increased the most at throw distance. If you could see throws, that'd give players even less of a reason to duck or react as they can just block+throw break most of the characters to get the advantage. Most of Tekken's throws suck dick at higher levels because of the way the game is played; you have many more Amy-esque lows, throws have more range, and, even on top of that you have fuzzy guarding and crouch fuzzy guard. Then, there's about 25 frames, most of the time, to see and break a throw in Tekken.

2. I honestly think most people have trouble doing JFs because they just don't try hard enough to get them down. SC is simple enough

3. Ring-outs add a new varible to the game, causing most of the time, one or both players to alter the way that they play, which in itself creates more depth to the fights (much in the same way throw distance does). Many characters already do shit damage against walls. If I'm playing Sets against Talim or Tira, what do I even have to lose by playing with my back to the wall? This creates a situation for some characters where, where they SHOULD have the advantage they still have to be wearier than the person they've put in a 'compromising' position (much like SF does to some of the lower tier characters).

In summation, I think you all, once you start to realize why, if you stick with SC4 and stay on the path of improvement, will become much more appreciative of some of SC's systems. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think SC4 is the best SC to date.

P.S. I miss the Vs. screen taunts too! Liked doing the screams, laughs, or saying "Payback!" with Talim and Cassie! =D

My idea still uses ROs, they just don't instant kill all the time. They do a set amount of damage. They'll still be an integral part of the game and can result in wins, but it gives players the chance to recover from one mistake while not always ending the match. Ever been RO'd on the first move of Seesaw level?

 

[Aragh]

Critical finished should be treated more as an essential part of the gameplay to keep people from turtling all day like bitches and seen less as just some gimmick.

No way. I dont like a whole SG and CF idea at all. Turtling is just another style of playing. Its the same in FPS's where people bitch and whine about camping. Campers camp, turtles turtle. Its their choice how they play the game. End of story.
I just dont want SC to turn into an all out offensive game. I favor a balance between offensive and defensive options.

 

[LP]

That's part of the beauty of SC to me, though. It creates another variable that actually supercedes a lot of other things in a match, which, in turn, can create all types of mindgames. I hate being rung out just as much as the next guy when I have a health advantage, but, like Idle said, most of the time, you know what situation you're in. And, hell, if a guy is good enough to mask his intent to ring someone out, he obviously outplayed you and you obviously didn't respect his game enough to consider it. Other than that, set damage? Nah, they already have walled stages and all that stuff. I want to be able to visibly see the fear my opponent has because they know that there's nothing between them and and defeat other than their own wit!

Seriously, SC is one of the most beautiful games ever, to me. Honestly, one of the few things I think they should do is make the SG game stronger and possibly create more frame advantage for some of the characters who have short range and can't space as well, but yeah. I think, if there's a SC5, that the team doing it is only getting better. At first I thought the SG was kinda iffy, but now I think that needs to be strengthened, because not only does it deter turtling through having a SG and not wanting to be CF'd, but it creates a situation in which a player has to almost completely change their playstyle if they don't want to lose (which further diminishes complete turtling as a viable playstyle).
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No way. I dont like a whole SG and CF idea at all. Turtling is just another style of playing. Its the same in FPS's where people bitch and whine about camping. Campers camp, turtles turtle. Its their choice how they play the game. End of story.
I just dont want SC to turn into an all out offensive game. I favor a balance between offensive and defensive options.

Nobody's saying completely demolish turtling as a viable strategy, but, just as you're being rewarding for turtling through counter, causing whiffs, and punishing, I think other players should be able to create more holes in defenses. Like I said, SC doesn't have too many gameplay changing mixups. You have a character like Talim going up against Ivy who has to COMPLETELY outplay the latter in order to just CLOSE DISTANCE and then not even be sure she's going to get a big payoff for doing well (which, I actually like because it creates diversity, but, hell, Ivy can even contend and outplay Talim at close range, which you could argue is a design flaw on Talim's part, but alas).

Like I said, though, no one's disagreeing that's turtling should be a part of the game, as, once again, it adds diversity, but the SG adds another variable, which adds even further depth to the game, in my honest opinion and strengthening it will not only increase the pace of the match and how quickly a player has to think and react but it will also cause the SC community to grow competitively as playstyles and matchups and counters, old and new, are tested and perfected.