Bin Laden is DEAD!
- Thread starter Mitalius
- Start date
lobo
Luminario
manjituo, it really depends on what casualties you are counting and what you attribute them to.
in the opinion of many, the initial war in afghanistan, the war in iraq, and the ongoing campaigns in afghanistan and pakistan are all a direct result of bin laden's act. the reality of, say, the conflict in iraq (where the majority of casualties on both sides came from) is that the reasons behind it were completely staged. the previous american administration worked very hard to convince the american public that iraq was harboring bin laden and his croonies. when that turned out to be bullshit they worked very hard to convince us that they were stockpiling nuclear weapons. when that also turned out to be bullshit they worked very hard to convince us that saddam hussein had been part of the 9-11 acts. unfortunately, the majority of americans believed our leaders' lies at every step of the way.
by the time it was so crystal clear that no moron on the planet could be mistaken that iraq was guilty of absolutely none of these things, we had already destroyed their ruling regime, their most flourishing cities, their hospitals, their schools, their museums...we had literally crumbled every facet of life that they had enjoyed. at this point the people there simply wanted us either gone, or dead. any population in the world, regardless of the government they live under, is going to fight violently against an occupying force that is killing their people and destroying their way of life. it doesn't matter if we can't understand how they lived before it is just human nature.
in total i believe that americans have suffered around 12 thousand deaths. iraq has suffered about SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND deaths. anyone who actually thinks that the vast vast vast majority of those people were not civilians is a straight up moron. i do not know how many deaths afghanistan suffered, but i am positive it is in the tens of thousands at least. these numbers are for these two conflicts alone. if you get into deaths indirectly caused by sanctions imposed on iraq by the first bush administration...the numbers get very very sickening, as if they were not already.
i don't blame the american military for this. they are under command by others. i am sure that a fair share and possibly even majority of them knew exactly the evil they were involved in and didn't care or supported it, but at the end of the day they were only doing what they believed to be right or patriotic. i do not blame them at all.
i do not blame osama bin laden for this. i blame him for the 2752 deaths from the WTC attacks and not a single one more. even that blame i place VERY loosely. call me a conspiracy theorist, but i am still convinced that the american government assisted him to the point of being equally if not more guilty. however, that is a discussion for a different thread.
the million or so deaths caused by and inflicted upon the american military during these conflicts, i blame 100% on the american politicians of the past decade, the american news media who propagated their flagrant lies, and the american people who stood by and by and large were too damn stupid to see through the bullshit, and who actually gave our popular vote over to supporting what i consider to be world-class-grade-A-evil. some of us were screaming, protesting, getting tear gassed, writing letters, voting in opposition, doing our own research...but i admit that after a few years even the most diligent opposers to these evil acts grew tired and lazy and...sadly and shamefully...apathetic. i'm as guilty of that as anybody else. at least, now, it is perhaps one step closer to being finished.
the point of this tirade is that, sadly, the vast majority of these deaths came as a direct result of lies that centered around mr. bin laden. even if his actions were not to blame directly, they were a catalyst for popular support from americans going toward these wars. even though others are to blame, he made a very very handy excuse. for these reasons you can make a strong argument that he is responsible for close to a million deaths. it would be bullshit, but i think the past decade has proven that we love the taste of bullshit here anyway, so why not keep serving it up?
that said...i am sad they kicked him into the ocean. that is one grave i woulda loved to make a pilgrimage to. i like pissing on things.
in the opinion of many, the initial war in afghanistan, the war in iraq, and the ongoing campaigns in afghanistan and pakistan are all a direct result of bin laden's act. the reality of, say, the conflict in iraq (where the majority of casualties on both sides came from) is that the reasons behind it were completely staged. the previous american administration worked very hard to convince the american public that iraq was harboring bin laden and his croonies. when that turned out to be bullshit they worked very hard to convince us that they were stockpiling nuclear weapons. when that also turned out to be bullshit they worked very hard to convince us that saddam hussein had been part of the 9-11 acts. unfortunately, the majority of americans believed our leaders' lies at every step of the way.
by the time it was so crystal clear that no moron on the planet could be mistaken that iraq was guilty of absolutely none of these things, we had already destroyed their ruling regime, their most flourishing cities, their hospitals, their schools, their museums...we had literally crumbled every facet of life that they had enjoyed. at this point the people there simply wanted us either gone, or dead. any population in the world, regardless of the government they live under, is going to fight violently against an occupying force that is killing their people and destroying their way of life. it doesn't matter if we can't understand how they lived before it is just human nature.
in total i believe that americans have suffered around 12 thousand deaths. iraq has suffered about SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND deaths. anyone who actually thinks that the vast vast vast majority of those people were not civilians is a straight up moron. i do not know how many deaths afghanistan suffered, but i am positive it is in the tens of thousands at least. these numbers are for these two conflicts alone. if you get into deaths indirectly caused by sanctions imposed on iraq by the first bush administration...the numbers get very very sickening, as if they were not already.
i don't blame the american military for this. they are under command by others. i am sure that a fair share and possibly even majority of them knew exactly the evil they were involved in and didn't care or supported it, but at the end of the day they were only doing what they believed to be right or patriotic. i do not blame them at all.
i do not blame osama bin laden for this. i blame him for the 2752 deaths from the WTC attacks and not a single one more. even that blame i place VERY loosely. call me a conspiracy theorist, but i am still convinced that the american government assisted him to the point of being equally if not more guilty. however, that is a discussion for a different thread.
the million or so deaths caused by and inflicted upon the american military during these conflicts, i blame 100% on the american politicians of the past decade, the american news media who propagated their flagrant lies, and the american people who stood by and by and large were too damn stupid to see through the bullshit, and who actually gave our popular vote over to supporting what i consider to be world-class-grade-A-evil. some of us were screaming, protesting, getting tear gassed, writing letters, voting in opposition, doing our own research...but i admit that after a few years even the most diligent opposers to these evil acts grew tired and lazy and...sadly and shamefully...apathetic. i'm as guilty of that as anybody else. at least, now, it is perhaps one step closer to being finished.
the point of this tirade is that, sadly, the vast majority of these deaths came as a direct result of lies that centered around mr. bin laden. even if his actions were not to blame directly, they were a catalyst for popular support from americans going toward these wars. even though others are to blame, he made a very very handy excuse. for these reasons you can make a strong argument that he is responsible for close to a million deaths. it would be bullshit, but i think the past decade has proven that we love the taste of bullshit here anyway, so why not keep serving it up?
that said...i am sad they kicked him into the ocean. that is one grave i woulda loved to make a pilgrimage to. i like pissing on things.
FiniteTangent
[01] Neophyte
lolz america, you're such an embarrassment.
i wonder who the next boogie man will be?
i wonder who the next boogie man will be?
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
If you didn't mean it in a degrading manner than I would like to apologize for having called you out on it.
Your right the war on terror (agreed its a WAY to vague concept) brought about the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. By a very tyrannical concept of superiority of an American Bush lead government which completely ignored the rest of the world and decided to invade regardless. But I was never talking about that. I was talking about the murder of Osama, that no matter how you look at it is Justice.
Well Im not sure what the general sentiment was by the Pakistani government and people towards Bin Laden, but I doubt there are large numbers thirsting for revenge considering it affects the people's everyday life very little. Then again what do I know :) lol.
All other side-effects of war aside though, The only people who I could see viewing the murder of Osama as not being justice are the ones that side with him.
This is strictly your opinion. You cant just say that america killed over 500 thousand people in the name of getting one man as if it was fact, it simply isn't. You forget one of the main reasons for the war in Iraq was the mass genocide of the Iraqi people by Saddam Hussein. He is responsible for close to a MILLION deaths of his own people.