Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Wow there are some great ideas here, keep them coming!
Soul Calibur 4 is brilliant for so many reasons including:
-Gameplay is extremely fun, rewarding good attack and good defense in equal measure
-Visually it's fantastic. I remember training with some characters when i first got the game - my heart melted when i saw some of the moves taki, nightmare and mina were capable of. All charas have amazing aesthetics in their movement, in sc4 even more than the previous titles
-Balance is excellent despite complaints. people are still arguing about tier lists 2 1/2 years since release. They couldn't have known mina's SG damage and range wouldn't counterbalance her weak frames up close. Or that hilde would be able to survive without attacking for 3 seconds in order to use her supermoves.
I think catering for the casual gamers is extremely important. Namco must primarily sell the game or we can forget about them producing new versions in the future. They have done such a great job with gameplay and balance in the past; that's why we're all still here, still playing the game and supporting a sequel. I trust them completely to do this again. the visuals and basic gameplay is what brings most players to the game in the first place, and they've always been excellent.
I'd like to see:
-Improved focus on story. SC universe has a really in depth story comared to other fighting games, and in particular the backstory in Soul Edge and Soul Calibur I for each character was incredibly deep. It added to the sense that your character was actually fighting for something, rather than just winning a tournament.
-Development of the SG system. The danger of soul crush was such a brilliant way to prevent turtling play, and balance the improved punishing system in sc4. Someone (Shenrii?) above suggested attributing advantages at different levels of SG, and i would personally like some kind of power increase at high (blue flashy) level. For example, to gain guard crush / unblockables or be able to soul charge.
-More intricate and interaction-based stages. the current ring out and wall combo systems are superb. For more interesting level design, you could include for example levels with lower stages where you could knock your opponent down. Depending on the design the character may sustain damage but continue to fight, or may lose the round but the fight would continue from there in the next round. This would add a new layer of strategy if say Seig was stronger on stage 1 but hilde had advantages on stage 2.
Hmm sorry for the wall of text. I've got some other ideas about stages and other things coming to me but I'll hold off for now.
i don't agree with: releasing frame data and making Edge Master mode play like a tourney player. it's up to us as a community to figure out the high level stuff, don't make namco and project soul slave over the inclusion and presentation of such things in their game. edge master mode in sc4 is excellent at teaching you to block, punish, step appropriately and play safe. it's not there to challenge you.
however a basic tutorial on punishment, safety, spacing and things like shaking stuns might be good.
---------------------------
I don't think you can ignore people's input about balance. Everyone who's played this for a while will think their opinion is valid. However a better player is more likely to come up with more effective nerfs/buffs without crippling/OPing a given character.
Nonetheless i still think Namco has done a great job balancing all the games so far. 2 1/2 years down the line and tournaments are still won by many different charcters (though mostly Ivy. bitch)
Don't forget that it can take a while for top players to fully realise a character's potential. Think how much the tier lists have changed since 2008. So best leave it to the designers, and then patch anything ridiculous a few months after SC5 comes out.
As for new ideas, I'd love:
> Team battle mode return, and online. Maybe with 'lives' for each character; so if in round 1 Maxi loses, he loses 1 life, Kilik can step in, and then if/when Kilik loses Maxi can continue so long as he has lives remaining. So if it was a 3-player team each with 3 lives, opponents would need to win 9 rounds to win.
Maybe even team Critical Finishers!?!
> More interactive stages. Imagine a castle curtain wall with a parapet (low wall) surrounding, and a square hole in the middle into which a character could be knocked. Then the fight would continue in the hall or throne room.
> Stories with objectives, tension and intrigue. The only reasonable story in SCIV was Sophitia's, where she was tricked by Tira into thinking that she had to protect Soul Edge or her children would die (because they were born while she had shards of Soul Edge in her wounds from her battle with Cervantes). Now imagine if, in SCIV, she had defeated Algol,taken Soul Edge, and become corrupted by its influence. Now imagine that Cassandra obtained Soul Calibur and was tasked to destroy the evil sword. Could she do it without harming her sister? The dilemma!! And imagine if Tira became Sophitia's servant!?! Or vice versa!?! Epic!!
If each character had proper motivations and each of these were both strongly related to the character him/herself, and these goals of each cast member would then intermingle, it would make a fantastic game even for those who won't play it for more than 20 hours. But also add more flavour to the pro fights!!
Also please make Xianghua's story better than: she was the child prodigy who banished the Inferno in SC I but now is full of doubts about her weaknesses and is horny for Kilik. This is pretty much her SC II-IV story
----------------------
Update - and some more ideas / Tapestry of fanboyism:
Lots of people want old characters back - so maybe make them boss characters?
- Ghost of Li Long returns to avenge Chie and himself against Mitsu / Cervantes
- Ghost of Xianglian haunts Kilik in his dreams, guilts him into taking the Dvapara Yuga from him and tries to trick him into giving it up
- Hwang returns to confront Hwang and Mina and force them to decide whether they really want to risk their lives in war, or return to their loved ones in Korea
- Kong Xiuqiang resolves to give up drink and take on the responsibility of rebuilding the Ling-Sheng Su Temple, only to meet Kilik who had murdered his daughter... and perhaps to finally meet his second daughter, Xianghua, whom he doesn't know even exists? They could meet at Xianglian's grave for example
- Edge master returns because he's so freaking cool
- Chie / Geki /Toki etc.
It would be awesome if there was time to create different paths for each character. Rather than all vying to find soul calibur / soul edge and face the same boss, the tried and tested formula format could change so that each character had to face other cast members. E.g. if Astaroth discovered that Talim had some inner power that could unlock Soul Calibur's hidden potential, or destroy Soul Edge for good, then he might try to find her but have to fight through Yun-Seong, Mina, Hwang, and/or maybe a powered-up version of Talim herself, having found and become in tune with the Holy Sword.
I'd particularly like these kinds of confrontations in the single-player modes because some of the most interesting backstories for various characters involve their meetings in the past, such as Mina's humiliation at the hands of Ivy, and Mitsurugi's persistent stalemate battles with Taki.
In terms of specifically balancing characters, all of Belial's suggestions are excellent. However they would serve only to improve SC4, where presumably SC5 will have new move lists. As such specific suggestions are impossible now, but I would prefer the SC4 direction of making the characters fight very differently and balancing them over time, rather than making all moves in the game adhere to basic rules. I don't like the idea of making all moves either safe or ranged or powerful or fast - characters can have moves like Asura or Umbrella or C3A so long as they are balanced by weaknesses elsewhere. It's part of the skill of the game to be aware of your opponent's strongest moves and adjust your playstyle accordingly.
I thought that the way cut scenes were rendered using in game-graphics was amazing, although I do think that the opening movies were a lot better in previous iterations, including Soul Blade/Edge.
I loved the subtleties in SCII such as being able to jump off walls (or special moves like X's WS [K] up the wall) and the changing hitboxes during step - that was unbelievable. Although I agree completely with those who want the game to continue to develop and diversify, rather than just remaking SCII. As posted elsewhere, stepping and GIs are great just as they are in SCIV.
Soul Calibur 4 is brilliant for so many reasons including:
-Gameplay is extremely fun, rewarding good attack and good defense in equal measure
-Visually it's fantastic. I remember training with some characters when i first got the game - my heart melted when i saw some of the moves taki, nightmare and mina were capable of. All charas have amazing aesthetics in their movement, in sc4 even more than the previous titles
-Balance is excellent despite complaints. people are still arguing about tier lists 2 1/2 years since release. They couldn't have known mina's SG damage and range wouldn't counterbalance her weak frames up close. Or that hilde would be able to survive without attacking for 3 seconds in order to use her supermoves.
I think catering for the casual gamers is extremely important. Namco must primarily sell the game or we can forget about them producing new versions in the future. They have done such a great job with gameplay and balance in the past; that's why we're all still here, still playing the game and supporting a sequel. I trust them completely to do this again. the visuals and basic gameplay is what brings most players to the game in the first place, and they've always been excellent.
I'd like to see:
-Improved focus on story. SC universe has a really in depth story comared to other fighting games, and in particular the backstory in Soul Edge and Soul Calibur I for each character was incredibly deep. It added to the sense that your character was actually fighting for something, rather than just winning a tournament.
-Development of the SG system. The danger of soul crush was such a brilliant way to prevent turtling play, and balance the improved punishing system in sc4. Someone (Shenrii?) above suggested attributing advantages at different levels of SG, and i would personally like some kind of power increase at high (blue flashy) level. For example, to gain guard crush / unblockables or be able to soul charge.
-More intricate and interaction-based stages. the current ring out and wall combo systems are superb. For more interesting level design, you could include for example levels with lower stages where you could knock your opponent down. Depending on the design the character may sustain damage but continue to fight, or may lose the round but the fight would continue from there in the next round. This would add a new layer of strategy if say Seig was stronger on stage 1 but hilde had advantages on stage 2.
Hmm sorry for the wall of text. I've got some other ideas about stages and other things coming to me but I'll hold off for now.
i don't agree with: releasing frame data and making Edge Master mode play like a tourney player. it's up to us as a community to figure out the high level stuff, don't make namco and project soul slave over the inclusion and presentation of such things in their game. edge master mode in sc4 is excellent at teaching you to block, punish, step appropriately and play safe. it's not there to challenge you.
however a basic tutorial on punishment, safety, spacing and things like shaking stuns might be good.
---------------------------
I don't think you can ignore people's input about balance. Everyone who's played this for a while will think their opinion is valid. However a better player is more likely to come up with more effective nerfs/buffs without crippling/OPing a given character.
Nonetheless i still think Namco has done a great job balancing all the games so far. 2 1/2 years down the line and tournaments are still won by many different charcters (though mostly Ivy. bitch)
Don't forget that it can take a while for top players to fully realise a character's potential. Think how much the tier lists have changed since 2008. So best leave it to the designers, and then patch anything ridiculous a few months after SC5 comes out.
As for new ideas, I'd love:
> Team battle mode return, and online. Maybe with 'lives' for each character; so if in round 1 Maxi loses, he loses 1 life, Kilik can step in, and then if/when Kilik loses Maxi can continue so long as he has lives remaining. So if it was a 3-player team each with 3 lives, opponents would need to win 9 rounds to win.
Maybe even team Critical Finishers!?!
> More interactive stages. Imagine a castle curtain wall with a parapet (low wall) surrounding, and a square hole in the middle into which a character could be knocked. Then the fight would continue in the hall or throne room.
> Stories with objectives, tension and intrigue. The only reasonable story in SCIV was Sophitia's, where she was tricked by Tira into thinking that she had to protect Soul Edge or her children would die (because they were born while she had shards of Soul Edge in her wounds from her battle with Cervantes). Now imagine if, in SCIV, she had defeated Algol,taken Soul Edge, and become corrupted by its influence. Now imagine that Cassandra obtained Soul Calibur and was tasked to destroy the evil sword. Could she do it without harming her sister? The dilemma!! And imagine if Tira became Sophitia's servant!?! Or vice versa!?! Epic!!
If each character had proper motivations and each of these were both strongly related to the character him/herself, and these goals of each cast member would then intermingle, it would make a fantastic game even for those who won't play it for more than 20 hours. But also add more flavour to the pro fights!!
Also please make Xianghua's story better than: she was the child prodigy who banished the Inferno in SC I but now is full of doubts about her weaknesses and is horny for Kilik. This is pretty much her SC II-IV story
----------------------
Update - and some more ideas / Tapestry of fanboyism:
Lots of people want old characters back - so maybe make them boss characters?
- Ghost of Li Long returns to avenge Chie and himself against Mitsu / Cervantes
- Ghost of Xianglian haunts Kilik in his dreams, guilts him into taking the Dvapara Yuga from him and tries to trick him into giving it up
- Hwang returns to confront Hwang and Mina and force them to decide whether they really want to risk their lives in war, or return to their loved ones in Korea
- Kong Xiuqiang resolves to give up drink and take on the responsibility of rebuilding the Ling-Sheng Su Temple, only to meet Kilik who had murdered his daughter... and perhaps to finally meet his second daughter, Xianghua, whom he doesn't know even exists? They could meet at Xianglian's grave for example
- Edge master returns because he's so freaking cool
- Chie / Geki /Toki etc.
It would be awesome if there was time to create different paths for each character. Rather than all vying to find soul calibur / soul edge and face the same boss, the tried and tested formula format could change so that each character had to face other cast members. E.g. if Astaroth discovered that Talim had some inner power that could unlock Soul Calibur's hidden potential, or destroy Soul Edge for good, then he might try to find her but have to fight through Yun-Seong, Mina, Hwang, and/or maybe a powered-up version of Talim herself, having found and become in tune with the Holy Sword.
I'd particularly like these kinds of confrontations in the single-player modes because some of the most interesting backstories for various characters involve their meetings in the past, such as Mina's humiliation at the hands of Ivy, and Mitsurugi's persistent stalemate battles with Taki.
In terms of specifically balancing characters, all of Belial's suggestions are excellent. However they would serve only to improve SC4, where presumably SC5 will have new move lists. As such specific suggestions are impossible now, but I would prefer the SC4 direction of making the characters fight very differently and balancing them over time, rather than making all moves in the game adhere to basic rules. I don't like the idea of making all moves either safe or ranged or powerful or fast - characters can have moves like Asura or Umbrella or C3A so long as they are balanced by weaknesses elsewhere. It's part of the skill of the game to be aware of your opponent's strongest moves and adjust your playstyle accordingly.
I thought that the way cut scenes were rendered using in game-graphics was amazing, although I do think that the opening movies were a lot better in previous iterations, including Soul Blade/Edge.
I loved the subtleties in SCII such as being able to jump off walls (or special moves like X's WS [K] up the wall) and the changing hitboxes during step - that was unbelievable. Although I agree completely with those who want the game to continue to develop and diversify, rather than just remaking SCII. As posted elsewhere, stepping and GIs are great just as they are in SCIV.
