SoulCast Episode #3: Hates

In my opinion, this game is going to get boring quick. I never got bored on SCIV, but I'm an Ivy players, so I really hate this game. I feel characters are put to be basic. In SCIV is was all stepping, and guarding certain attacks. In SCV, it's all about advoiding getting hit, which is where the JG system comes in. JG is really the same as AGI n GI but I can't see a difference between JG in SCV compared to AGI n GI in SCIV. But anyways, Ivy sucks in this version, because she was top tier in SCIV! Now in SCV all you have to do is figure out JG n mixups. -_-
 
It really comes down to this...

if you can't retreat safely, then every action you take within a certain range of your opponent is effectively rock paper scissors. If you backstep, you can be hit. if you sidestep, you could be hit. if you attack, you could be stepped/GI'd/just beaten out entirely. No player is psychic, you are always going to be guessing here.

Before I could at least argue that there were safe ways to probe your opponent out and see what their most likely reactions would be, and this could lead to an intelligent battle of wits. Poking somebody and then slightly backstepping out into guard while sacrificing some guard damage was a viable tactic to do this and you could recover from it.

That is no longer a viable option, and the nerf instead forces you to be in danger, all the time after the very first exchange happens unless both parties let each other back off at certain intervals.

The only game I know of that punishes someone for backstepping is DOA 4. If that game has become the gold standard for movement, I think we are having some problems here.
 
xiang said:
That being said, the overall pace at which players exchange attacks is a lot faster in SCV than in a lot of other games because of this, which is where the "rock em sock em robots" expression comes into play.
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They tried to make it a flashy spectator sport. (I wish they would market it that way. Or market it at all.)

(Tournaments do not count as marketing.)

IMHO there's no problem with unsafe movement. I backdash right, you're getting hit. I backdash wrong, I'm %^&*ed. Any turtling has to be "active" and is arguably just another form of offense. The game is dangerous to play and everything is a risk leading to certain death. I like that.

Then again I used to play Mitsurugi so-
 
Xeph said:
It's hard to believe nerfing movement (to -20) doesn't cripple your former play style/habits.
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Ok it does feel really dumb in some matchups... Mitsu has so much control now and Pat does so much damage with predicted backstep

Problem with this is it's pure theory. Baiting/predicting JG is just as effective as JGing. Point is, movement in the past was safe and now it's not. JGing has little correlation to how to move post-patch.
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It's not pure theory. After a month and a half of using JG, I'm starting to be able to place my JG frames wherever I want to, while being safe (standing still and holding guard). It's very possible to do stuff like spacing a blocked poke, holding G for a little while, then throwing in a JG input at the timing of their back-step catcher, often guaranteeing a launch. At close range, JGing to catch fast attacks will force the opponent to delay their attacks.

Do that enough and you force them to stop trying to attack you right away to hit you out of backdashes or to hit you before you can move. Now you can move around! It just has to mixed in with standing still and JGing, which opens up their movement.

My point is: Not JGing is like playing rock paper scissors without the rock, the paper being movement and rock being attacking to stop movement.

About baiting and predicting JG... how is this "just as effective as JGing"? Doing it the safe way, it's hardly any different from standing still for a long time, which you're having to do anyway. Run-up side-throw is the hardest you can really punish this with, and you still have the same risks as before... they could see you run in and press buttons to stop you.

JG-attack can indeed be baiting and punished heavily with a delayed attack, but delay it too long and you'll get CH'd.

Though, you're half right, JG doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on movement in the long-range footsie-oriented "neutral game."
 
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