VeronicaVirus
[02] Apprentice
SC5 ALREADY??? OGM not so soon please >.< Im still playing sc4
Looking And Waiting For Something Special?
- Thread starter Jaxel
- Start date
WuHT
Premium Moderator
IIRC there was an interview asking the project soul team what their favourite characters were. One of them said Ivy, and one of them said Astaroth. Notice why those 2 are never less than upper mid tier ? Guess no one likes rock lol
dittO
[09] Warrior
About what Alastor said and generally about "difficult moves" (eg: JFs based on speed or on timing or even other complicated moves like SS/CS) I can see a point here.
However, there are so many different cases of various JFs in SCIV that it gets somehow confusing on how they should treat them in SCV.
On the one hand simplifying JFs would make them easier to use for everyone. However noone can deny that "mastering" some very hard moves gives a completely different taste of satisfaction and visual pleasure for both the player and anyone that watches it.
For example (since it was mentioned), what do you think would happen IF Ivy's command throws got a more simplified input?
Easier to come out of course...
However, it wouldn't surprise me If they nerfed the damage and/or range of these throws since they would be more spammable (aka easier input). Is that a good thing? I think that these command throws should remain as they are. Or just make a JF version much MUCH stronger but very hard to do. But then we return to the start of the problem, because people will always want to "master" the hardest move whichever one it is.
Another example would be Setsuka (that I consider to be probably the hardest character to master in SCIV). She is very strong even without some of her JFs, however, If someone is able to perform her JFs whenever needed, in a very succefull rate, she becomes a monster. And to me, that makes a huge difference between various players.
Of course some of you have a point also. Because there is always a turn-off factor whenever a player feels that cannot get the most out of his character.
And then in SCIV, there are also some "unecessary/weird" cases of JFs that I don't even know why they made it like that...
Some of them being:
- Yun's 8K
K:K (or something like that). More damage and taunting...
- Raphael's 33K:B. I believe it wouldn't hurt anyone If the normal version had the JF's properties.
- Tira's various JFs. Ok I'm aware of the changes of some properties of those JFs, but I feel it's a bit of a joke.
- Ivy's 5-hit JF. Either give properties like SC3 and before or don't, but make it REALLY easy If you want it to be like SCIV.
- Zasalamel's JFs. Could have better reward...
And the same can also be applied to many other characters' JFs, but not on Setsuka for example (and maybe Cervantes) because she gets rewarded very well, If you are able to do them.
However, I must say once again that JF difficulty is a bit complicated matter. And there are many different opinions on what should be easier/harder/riskier/rewarding/not rewarding/etc by many different players.
However, there are so many different cases of various JFs in SCIV that it gets somehow confusing on how they should treat them in SCV.
On the one hand simplifying JFs would make them easier to use for everyone. However noone can deny that "mastering" some very hard moves gives a completely different taste of satisfaction and visual pleasure for both the player and anyone that watches it.
For example (since it was mentioned), what do you think would happen IF Ivy's command throws got a more simplified input?
Easier to come out of course...
However, it wouldn't surprise me If they nerfed the damage and/or range of these throws since they would be more spammable (aka easier input). Is that a good thing? I think that these command throws should remain as they are. Or just make a JF version much MUCH stronger but very hard to do. But then we return to the start of the problem, because people will always want to "master" the hardest move whichever one it is.
Another example would be Setsuka (that I consider to be probably the hardest character to master in SCIV). She is very strong even without some of her JFs, however, If someone is able to perform her JFs whenever needed, in a very succefull rate, she becomes a monster. And to me, that makes a huge difference between various players.
Of course some of you have a point also. Because there is always a turn-off factor whenever a player feels that cannot get the most out of his character.
And then in SCIV, there are also some "unecessary/weird" cases of JFs that I don't even know why they made it like that...
Some of them being:
- Yun's 8K
K:K (or something like that). More damage and taunting...- Raphael's 33K:B. I believe it wouldn't hurt anyone If the normal version had the JF's properties.
- Tira's various JFs. Ok I'm aware of the changes of some properties of those JFs, but I feel it's a bit of a joke.
- Ivy's 5-hit JF. Either give properties like SC3 and before or don't, but make it REALLY easy If you want it to be like SCIV.
- Zasalamel's JFs. Could have better reward...
And the same can also be applied to many other characters' JFs, but not on Setsuka for example (and maybe Cervantes) because she gets rewarded very well, If you are able to do them.
However, I must say once again that JF difficulty is a bit complicated matter. And there are many different opinions on what should be easier/harder/riskier/rewarding/not rewarding/etc by many different players.
wildtazman67
[02] Apprentice
Well I definately support the idea of SCV (I think literally everyone does) I didn't play the other SCs so I dont have much say in mechanics or how the game should be balanced. And I understand everyone's desire for a better story, character creation, and better character designs... But people do have to do ALOT of work to make those improvements. Its a complicated process to make those things. If you had a better story, you'd have to have more cutscenes/animations which is work. The character creation system amazes me already. The amount of work that would have to be done modeling and making it so interactive is mind-boggeling to me.
What Im trying to say overall is that SCIV looks so good and smooth because they didn't put that effort towards the lacking parts. If you try to make each part of the game perfect, you would have to wait longer for the game itself.
I would definately encourage a Beta system to be tested by people who really know the game. This would definately include a lot of people from 8wr from what Ive seen. With your guys help and their ability to produce a damn good game, it could definately be possible to produce the same sleek SC with the in-depth fighting system all balanced with the hours of effort put in by you guys.
I think its definately possible to make SCV a great, best-selling game that everyone can enjoy... And thats about it really. :/
Ooofmatic
World Warrior
Chickenwing, I'm not gonna bother arguing with you because it won't go anywhere. But all I gotta say is if I can make you guess wrong 7-8 times and you still beat me, then I'm not going to blame my character, I'm gonna blame myself as a player for not making you guess wrong 10 times instead.
And I didn't realize that exposing cheating and lying at a tournament ruins my reputation. ;)
The whole point of my post was describe my point of view on the benefits of tier discrepancies, those benefits being primarily for self improvement and greater satisfaction from winning. I didn't say that I want SC5 to be imbalanced. In fact I would prefer it to be more balanced because that is what the majority want and would cause less bickering. I've just learned to appreciate certain aspects of the imbalances that I've grown accustomed to in SC.
I'm still baffled by how people think Rock and Mina can't win tournaments. Maybe not an American Rock or Mina since it's becoming clear to me that most Americans have a scrub mentality. Probably only a Korean at this point. If TALIM can get second at Nationals with most of the top players there, then it is not impossible for Rock or Mina. Just because you won't ever see it happen doesn't mean it's not possible.
And I didn't realize that exposing cheating and lying at a tournament ruins my reputation. ;)
The whole point of my post was describe my point of view on the benefits of tier discrepancies, those benefits being primarily for self improvement and greater satisfaction from winning. I didn't say that I want SC5 to be imbalanced. In fact I would prefer it to be more balanced because that is what the majority want and would cause less bickering. I've just learned to appreciate certain aspects of the imbalances that I've grown accustomed to in SC.
I'm still baffled by how people think Rock and Mina can't win tournaments. Maybe not an American Rock or Mina since it's becoming clear to me that most Americans have a scrub mentality. Probably only a Korean at this point. If TALIM can get second at Nationals with most of the top players there, then it is not impossible for Rock or Mina. Just because you won't ever see it happen doesn't mean it's not possible.