Getting Used To Things.
- Thread starter Brizzyyy
- Start date
Pocky-Yoshi
[14] Master
Well said HeresYourReply.
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
Alright now time for a lengthy and detailed reply/2nd post. This one will be flooded with alot of info, so be forewarned. I'll focus on Astaroth because I feel I can best explain him to you, being an Astaroth tournament player myself. I'll try and use the video I linked for an easy reference and cite other references while I go over it!
Astaroth lives and dies on how well he can make an opponent afraid of him/his options. His basic mix-up at close range is Bullrush (66K), delayed Bullrush (pause slightly before doing 66K) to catch people flinch ducking in fear of a throw and to catch people who sidestep because the waiting re-aligns him to his opponent, or Command Throw A or B (63214 A+G or 63214 B+G). Saitoh also makes use of 3(B) slight hold to see how Keev will react because if Keev stops guarding and goes to sidestep it, it can catch him and give him the 2A+K ground pickup combo that you saw there. Why are each of these moves good? Allow me to explain.
Bullrush (66K) is a mid hitting, tech crouch, body attack that knocks down and rings out at ring edges, and wall-splats near walls. Also, its very fast for Astaroth.
What does all this mean? Well, mid means it hit's opponents who crouch and opponents who stand have to block it. Tech-crouch means it ducks under high attacks and throws during the move animation. It being a Body Attack is relevant against certain auto-impacts and defenses which don't defend against that type of attack. Knockdown is important because it allows Astaroth to run up and continue pressuring. Ring Out and Wall Splat are obvious, of course. On top of these things the move is "safe" against most characters, meaning if they block it; they do not get any "free" hits on Astaroth before he can guard again.
63214A+G is the command throw you will see hit with Astaroth most often. The throw does great damage, and leaves the opponent at his feet afterwords. On top of that, because it's a command throw the window for the opponent to break the throw is smaller. Also, it has the benefit of not being able to Guard Impacted or Parried.
As another bonus, if the opponent is jumping while you do this throw, it will shift into an air-throw, so this throw unlike all others can be used to punish people jumping to avoid throws.
63214B+G is the reason the above throw hits so much. This throw combos into both 22B and 28B+G (also known as Titan Bomb), and does about 50% life in damage. It also has amazing Ring-Out potential in any direction by just Bullrushing or A+G throwing them out of the air after. This throw is so scary, people often ONLY break B instead of A, thus giving you lots of free A throws.
Ok, back on the subject of delayed unblockables. 4(A+B) can also be used in a similar fashion as a slightly delayed unblockable but is riskier. Whereas if he does 3(B)and stops short and it get's blocked, Astaroth is safer from taking free hits because of 3(B)'s push-back and quick recovery. 4(A+B) is good because on a counter-hit or catching someone moving, it gives a stun which gives Astaroth damage and position. The downside is, it's riskier because if you stop short and the move is blocked; Astaroth is heavily punishable. He's at what we call "-20". This is short for -20 frames, which is the speed the game is measured in.
A quick rundown on frames: The game runs at 60 frames per second. Moves in the game have frames to activate relative to their speed, and recovery frames on block. Let's say an Asta was facing another Asta. Asta1 does 4(A+B)
and Asta2 blocks it. Asta1 is considered to be at -20, so if Asta2 does any move 20 frames or under, its guaranteed to hit because Asta1 cannot block. This is called "Block Punishment" or just "Punishment". Asta2 can get a "free" Bullrush because it executes in 17 frames or "i17" (the i is short for instant). To learn more about Astaroth's frames check out the wiki HERE.
Your welcome for the info, I hope it gives you a good start! I would suggest leaning towards Astaroth because in a wierd way he teaches you the basics of the game better than any other character. Spacing, Throwing, Attack Timing, and using your opportunities. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I could analyze that Saitoh vs Keev video ALL DAY for many posts, there is so much good stuff in it.
-Idle
Astaroth lives and dies on how well he can make an opponent afraid of him/his options. His basic mix-up at close range is Bullrush (66K), delayed Bullrush (pause slightly before doing 66K) to catch people flinch ducking in fear of a throw and to catch people who sidestep because the waiting re-aligns him to his opponent, or Command Throw A or B (63214 A+G or 63214 B+G). Saitoh also makes use of 3(B) slight hold to see how Keev will react because if Keev stops guarding and goes to sidestep it, it can catch him and give him the 2A+K ground pickup combo that you saw there. Why are each of these moves good? Allow me to explain.
Bullrush (66K) is a mid hitting, tech crouch, body attack that knocks down and rings out at ring edges, and wall-splats near walls. Also, its very fast for Astaroth.
What does all this mean? Well, mid means it hit's opponents who crouch and opponents who stand have to block it. Tech-crouch means it ducks under high attacks and throws during the move animation. It being a Body Attack is relevant against certain auto-impacts and defenses which don't defend against that type of attack. Knockdown is important because it allows Astaroth to run up and continue pressuring. Ring Out and Wall Splat are obvious, of course. On top of these things the move is "safe" against most characters, meaning if they block it; they do not get any "free" hits on Astaroth before he can guard again.
63214A+G is the command throw you will see hit with Astaroth most often. The throw does great damage, and leaves the opponent at his feet afterwords. On top of that, because it's a command throw the window for the opponent to break the throw is smaller. Also, it has the benefit of not being able to Guard Impacted or Parried.
As another bonus, if the opponent is jumping while you do this throw, it will shift into an air-throw, so this throw unlike all others can be used to punish people jumping to avoid throws.
63214B+G is the reason the above throw hits so much. This throw combos into both 22B and 28B+G (also known as Titan Bomb), and does about 50% life in damage. It also has amazing Ring-Out potential in any direction by just Bullrushing or A+G throwing them out of the air after. This throw is so scary, people often ONLY break B instead of A, thus giving you lots of free A throws.
Ok, back on the subject of delayed unblockables. 4(A+B) can also be used in a similar fashion as a slightly delayed unblockable but is riskier. Whereas if he does 3(B)and stops short and it get's blocked, Astaroth is safer from taking free hits because of 3(B)'s push-back and quick recovery. 4(A+B) is good because on a counter-hit or catching someone moving, it gives a stun which gives Astaroth damage and position. The downside is, it's riskier because if you stop short and the move is blocked; Astaroth is heavily punishable. He's at what we call "-20". This is short for -20 frames, which is the speed the game is measured in.
A quick rundown on frames: The game runs at 60 frames per second. Moves in the game have frames to activate relative to their speed, and recovery frames on block. Let's say an Asta was facing another Asta. Asta1 does 4(A+B)
and Asta2 blocks it. Asta1 is considered to be at -20, so if Asta2 does any move 20 frames or under, its guaranteed to hit because Asta1 cannot block. This is called "Block Punishment" or just "Punishment". Asta2 can get a "free" Bullrush because it executes in 17 frames or "i17" (the i is short for instant). To learn more about Astaroth's frames check out the wiki HERE.
Your welcome for the info, I hope it gives you a good start! I would suggest leaning towards Astaroth because in a wierd way he teaches you the basics of the game better than any other character. Spacing, Throwing, Attack Timing, and using your opportunities. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I could analyze that Saitoh vs Keev video ALL DAY for many posts, there is so much good stuff in it.
-Idle
Brizzyyy
[05] Battler
Awesome Info! I never would of known Asta taught you that much. Some of the notations/moves you mentioned here i remember doing in practice mode last night. But sometimes i just have problems inputtinng movement like 63214 B+G. While looking through the move list i noticed all the things Asta can do on a downed opponent, or when their in the air. I also read somewhere else that he often has to block when fighting fast chars so he can find openings?
Thanks for The Info Idle ;]
Thanks for The Info Idle ;]
IdleMind
BANNED FOREVER
Against faster characters who spam attacks you generally have these options:
6K (aka Knee). This move tech-crouches, and is pretty fast (i17), and on CH give you a combo. You use this move when you think the opponent is going to used a delayed attack or press their advantage after you block their pokes. Lets say you get hit with a 2K (which for most characters is -3 or 4 on HIT), and you think they will try to transition into a rising attack or throw attempt. Using 6K here will generally interrupt because it will come out 3 to 4 frames "faster" as a result of the opponents frame disadvantage. On CH, this combos into 2B+K A+G. On block it isn't so bad, only -14. Sophitia is the only character in the game who can punish you hard on block. As a bonus, if you only normal hit with it, your still at +3 afterwords!
6A. This move is technically part of a string; 6AB, but the 6A part by itself is MUCH better alone than using both hits.
6A is i12, which is VERY fast, and even though it's -14 on block, punishing it is hard because of how fast the move is and the threat of the second hit, even if you only use it occasionally. On normal hit it isn't so good, but CH its +2, and if your REALLY good at reading the opponent you can input the B which combos if 6A counter-hits. 6AB though is -18 block, which is very bad. A good example situation of when 6AB is good to use over just 6A is when you block Sigfrieds 3(B), because Sig players LOVE pressing buttons after that move. Your almost guaranteed a CH.
Guard Impact (6G or 3G). This is the riskiest option if you whiff, you will be left exposed, but if you manage to impact their attack, you will be at the "post GI situation". You are left at +20; but the opponent can GI back. How to use this to your advantage? Mixup your 63214 throws, because they can't be GI'd back, they would have to perfect JI them. They can't duck them, so it's a free throw mixup on a successful Guard Impact.
-Idle
6K (aka Knee). This move tech-crouches, and is pretty fast (i17), and on CH give you a combo. You use this move when you think the opponent is going to used a delayed attack or press their advantage after you block their pokes. Lets say you get hit with a 2K (which for most characters is -3 or 4 on HIT), and you think they will try to transition into a rising attack or throw attempt. Using 6K here will generally interrupt because it will come out 3 to 4 frames "faster" as a result of the opponents frame disadvantage. On CH, this combos into 2B+K A+G. On block it isn't so bad, only -14. Sophitia is the only character in the game who can punish you hard on block. As a bonus, if you only normal hit with it, your still at +3 afterwords!
6A. This move is technically part of a string; 6AB, but the 6A part by itself is MUCH better alone than using both hits.
6A is i12, which is VERY fast, and even though it's -14 on block, punishing it is hard because of how fast the move is and the threat of the second hit, even if you only use it occasionally. On normal hit it isn't so good, but CH its +2, and if your REALLY good at reading the opponent you can input the B which combos if 6A counter-hits. 6AB though is -18 block, which is very bad. A good example situation of when 6AB is good to use over just 6A is when you block Sigfrieds 3(B), because Sig players LOVE pressing buttons after that move. Your almost guaranteed a CH.
Guard Impact (6G or 3G). This is the riskiest option if you whiff, you will be left exposed, but if you manage to impact their attack, you will be at the "post GI situation". You are left at +20; but the opponent can GI back. How to use this to your advantage? Mixup your 63214 throws, because they can't be GI'd back, they would have to perfect JI them. They can't duck them, so it's a free throw mixup on a successful Guard Impact.
-Idle