Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

[Silent Joel]

What's the verdict on online?

 

[LP]

, as well as use the same exact strategy as every other player. It may be powerful, but if everyone is used to it, just how effective will it be when it comes down to the wire?

The thing about things like that is that players don't have to go by a flowchart. Beyond that, by the advantage inherent, there's usually more pressure on the player on defense to act (and thus act incorrectly) than there is on the offensive player. Couple this with the fact that things like this usually put you back in the same situation and don't net you as much gain as the offensive player and you have a lot of room for silliness.

It's really one of the main reasons fighting games have become a joke to me (a fun joke but a joke nonetheless). I mean, strip them down to their base level and, most of the time, the best stuff is stuff that is a result of a guess with high yield in reward and low risk or stuff your opponent simply can't deal with, whether it be because of character design or general game design.

Still, I guess that's also one of the charms of fighting games for most people. EDIT: A case in point being a game like UMC3, which lots of competitive FG players love where the offense is usually silly, safe, and has variables during it which can prolong it until your opponent finally guesses wrong. I guess two of the saving graces for that game is that, generally, the best characters can match the damage done on offense by a correct guess and throws generally aren't very amazing in that game. Still, I guess I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this because I actually like watching Chris G play (and his team is an example of exploiting things other characters can't generally do much about).

Realize, also, that I don't know anything about this DoA stuff. I'm just talking about fighting games in general.

 

[d3v]

It may be powerful, but if everyone is used to it, just how effective will it be when it comes down to the wire?

Then you just do your best to become better at it then anyone else. Look at Japanese 3rd Strike, alot of players pick Chun come major tournament time, but no one plays her as well as MOV (to the point where it feels like the match up chart changes when he's playing her).

The thing about things like that is that players don't have to go by a flowchart. Beyond that, by the advantage inherent, there's usually more pressure on the player on defense to act (and thus act incorrectly) than there is on the offensive player. Couple this with the fact that things like this usually put you back in the same situation and don't net you as much gain as the offensive player and you have a lot of room for silliness.

Because, when you think about it, it's easier to defend than to attack. You're either just holding down+back or guard.

As for "putting you back in the same situation," that's just what good players do. High level play is all about minimizing your risks and maximizing your reward. In fact, it's like this in most competitive exercises, be it fighting games or chess or what have you.

It's really one of the main reasons fighting games have become a joke to me (a fun joke but a joke nonetheless). I mean, strip them down to their base level and, most of the time, the best stuff is stuff that is a result of a guess with high yield in reward and low risk or stuff your opponent simply can't deal with, whether it be because of character design or general game design.

What you call a "guess" is to those playing it actually a read. A good part of competitive fighting games (and competitive gaming in general) is about learning to read your opponent. What may seem like a random guess could actually be someone figuring out their opponents patterns and habits.

 

[LP]

Then you just do your best to become better at it then anyone else. Look at Japanese 3rd Strike, alot of players pick Chun come major tournament time, but no one plays her as well as MOV (to the point where it feels like the match up chart changes when he's playing her).

Because, when you think about it, it's easier to defend than to attack. You're either just holding down+back or guard.

As for "putting you back in the same situation," that's just what good players do. High level play is all about minimizing your risks and maximizing your reward. In fact, it's like this in most competitive exercises, be it fighting games or chess or what have you.

What you call a "guess" is to those playing it actually a read. A good part of competitive fighting games (and competitive gaming in general) is about learning to read your opponent. What may seem like a random guess could actually be someone figuring out their opponents patterns and habits.

The argument of defense is good and all until you realize that you also have throws, which equalizes the playing grounds (though most fighting games as of late have seemingly tried to diminish the power of throws in order to increase the power of blocking/defensive play).

Part of the 'minimizing your risk' greatly entails eliminating the amount of guesswork you're burdened with and taxing your opponent opponent with a greater amount (with the holy grail of this being having something that's guaranteed).

And, no, a 'read' is a guess. There's no way you can be sure your 'read' will work. There may be things that give cause for you to believe that you're guess is more or less likely to be correct, but it's still a guess. One of the things I do a lot in SC is do the same thing over and over again so that my opponent thinks I'm being predictable in order to get them to do some action I want them to, which in itself may or may not work. It's like a hypothesis in that, no matter how much you know before hand, you can't hold that it's true until you test it. And, like those, even if it works once, it may not work again (because it was a guess in the first place, that you just so happened to get correct).

Still, like I said, I don't hate fighting games for any of this. It's part of what makes them fun, I guess.

 

[Rikuto]

That's called conditioning. Yes, a large part of DOA is conditioning. It's also realizing when you've accidentally conditioned your opponent to exploit your own weaknesses.

Then you have to determine whether or not they are the kind of personality that is also attempting to condition you. Then you have to determine whether or not they are capable of recognizing their pattern has been spotted before you've exploited it and are going to change it up.

And then you have to double check and make sure that this is actually the case, and they were not just hitting buttons in an arbitrarily random fashion which made it seem like this was the case.

It's a shame you can't figure any of this out without taking some damage first. That is, if anything, the biggest flaw to fighters at the moment.