Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

[DrakeAldan]

For hi-counters whats the point of ducking or using a move that tech crouches when I could use that to my advantage and punish the person for doing a high attack?

Ducking is arguable (since you duck in expectation of a punish, if you are committing to it). Using a move that tech crouches, though, is reasonable, as the tech crouch acts as a shield. It is still an attack, it just so happens to dodge under highs, so it has more utility than just denying high attacks, whereas with a high hold there is no attack that comes along with that, the only use is for catching high attacks.

You could say that ducking is "safer" depending on how you use it, but if you have a good read, you are right, you should go for the high hold.

For low-counters for one you can use it to duck high attacks and grabs; it also defeats the purpose of using jumping attacks.

Again, a jumping attack is still an attack. A low hold is nothing without an opponent's low attack.

Kind of like Cervantes' bK I guess, it does have the capability to jump over attacks, but it has utility other than that. If a low attack isn't used by the opponent, you can still hit the opponent.

As for using low holds to duck high attacks and grabs, that doesn't give you any damage reward, maybe a frame reward (don't know the exact recoveries on common scenarios). Sure, you escaped, but you didn't get anything for it.

Just change the holds in general and make the more of a fall back approach than well spammable.

Eh? Can you elaborate for me bro?

I don't think the holds are so bad in this game...

 

[jtdam09]

snip

The hold system is just like VF's. Just ranges from easier to difficult in input, and VF's hold system doesn't serve as much importance as DOA's does.

But then you have most cases where characters can hold attacks by using a different stance (Aoi, Lei Fei), can hold just by being in their regular battle stance (Jacky), or all of the above (Vanessa).

 

[Kenjitsu_Hokori]

Why can't you just play Virtua Fighter?

I will never understand the logic of wanting a game play like another game. Holds where nerfed enough and people still want them nerfed. I just don't get it.

Hey I dont think the game is bad not by a longshot what im saying is DOA still didnt change and that is where the problem persist. It has all the necessary tools to be a deep fighter and deeper than most but one gimmicky aspect of the game was those counter holds. I mean as the games progressed from DOA on PS1 to DOA to DC to DOA to Xbox the game was always holds based and to throw in a mix they added another Hold. Which in general was no truly need when we had 3 to begin with and they just threw in 4 to make it more complicated than it really had to be.

Also the reason I said the game should go the VF route is for the fact there movement and is similar to VF and they even added the offensive step like VF. If you're going to change stuff might as well change the entire mechanic system of holds also.

@Drake: The holds were alot worst in the past and fights only used to consist of a single poke to a hold. In THIS version the fighting is still the same but people wont spam holds like they used to back in the day however the fact that the holds still puts a weird fear in the player that leads to putting a mind game on yourself. The best player will still be hesitant to be on the offensive when they know a hold might come. This is where DOA has the love it or hate it type of mechanic. Personally I dont mind it but seems many are on the opposite for this one so it becomes a coin toss.

 

[Reave]

Every fighting game has its gimmick. DOA happens to be counters and how you get around them. Counters do shit damage compared to the old games unless your Bayman or Hayabusa so I don't see the point of nerfing them any more. They already have unholdable stuns on top of the nerf to counters. This is the best point DOA can be at with maybe a few more guaranteed damage set-ups for other characters.

Honestly if it turned into Virtua Fighters stiff movement and slow pace then I would no longer be a fan of DOA.

 

[ProvesaDark]

Hey I dont think the game is bad not by a longshot what im saying is DOA still didnt change and that is where the problem persist. It has all the necessary tools to be a deep fighter and deeper than most but one gimmicky aspect of the game was those counter holds. I mean as the games progressed from DOA on PS1 to DOA to DC to DOA to Xbox the game was always holds based and to throw in a mix they added another Hold. Which in general was no truly need when we had 3 to begin with and they just threw in 4 to make it more complicated than it really had to be.

Also the reason I said the game should go the VF route is for the fact there movement and is similar to VF and they even added the offensive step like VF. If you're going to change stuff might as well change the entire mechanic system of holds also.

@Drake: The holds were alot worst in the past and fights only used to consist of a single poke to a hold. In THIS version the fighting is still the same but people wont spam holds like they used to back in the day however the fact that the holds still puts a weird fear in the player that leads to putting a mind game on yourself. The best player will still be hesitant to be on the offensive when they know a hold might come. This is where DOA has the love it or hate it type of mechanic. Personally I dont mind it but seems many are on the opposite for this one so it becomes a coin toss.

I would have to disagree with your statement about changing entirely. It's quite obvious SCV took after Streetfighter with all of the supers and what not, even the just guard system acts the same as the SF3 parry system. I think one of the devs said that SF3 was one of their favorite fighting games. Those were two ideas they took from another game which didn't quite fail. Sure some people hate it but they make due.

After having so many versions of a game, you shouldn't just off the back change the whole game around. That would be fail. You would probably lose the fans you already had, then you'd have to solely rely on new comers. They did a great job with the game an it can be played at high level. The gaming community can't be saticfied with anything. They're like most women, give them something and they'll want more or complain about what they got.

Every game has something to bitch about if wanted be. SCV dropped alot of it's original traits and has became Super Soul Calibur an on top of that, the movelist has been reduced. TTT2 is STILL a juggle fest. Although they've reduced the damage from T6 and made rage mode less gay. DoA5 still plays like DoA... besides the fact that they nerfed holds an added a sidestep system.

You can stop getting countered to death by poke and grabbing. That's why they call it the triangle system. It's a way around everything.