Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

well. everyone has opinions of the game. i'm not gonna shoot anyone down for them expressing their thoughts (or at least try not to). obviously there were a lot of people that thought DOA4 was viable enough to be played in international tourneys though.
 
well. everyone has opinions of the game. i'm not gonna shoot anyone down for them expressing their thoughts (or at least try not to). obviously there were a lot of people that thought DOA4 was viable enough to be played in international tourneys though.

Of course people played it … when company's don't care about the scene and are just throwing money out there. You have to look at the before and after it's esports era to see that there was really less than 10 people who wanted to play it competitively as most of the doa2 and doa3 players left it for other games due to how doa4 turned out.

It's a very pretty game that didn't hold up competitively due to the lack of reward to position, space, and whiff punishment in the game. The numerous amount of times you had to read a reaction was far too much and over taxing. The designer wanted an offensive game, but got one that was defensive instead. Players were practically rewarded for being counter hit or wall splatted. People played it for the online next Gen play, and the free money. If neither were there, it's scene would have been No more than 2 years and that's being generous.
 
Can someone please explain to me why guessing a high/mid/low mix-up is any different to guessing if someone will step, or if someone will crouch, or if someone will do an A grab, or B grab, or DP, or spam jabs, or block, or do an Ultra.

Can they also explain to me why people like to press the same series of buttons over and over again after they land a hit on their opponent.

Can someone also explain to me why getting 50% from one good guess is good and competitive and creates the environment for a serious game, whereas having to make multiple good reads to get 50% is bad design.
These were my questions
You guess all the time because of counters. ...That's what I said and it addresses all of your "questions."
This doesn't answer any of them. And putting "questions" with the speech marks kind of shows you're just being an ass. I take it no-one can be bothered to answer the questions?

WHY IS GUESSING IN HITSTUN ANY DIFFERENT TO GUESSING OUTSIDE OF HITSTUN? That's a different way to phrase my question, in case you didn't get it.
 
These were my questions

This doesn't answer any of them. And putting "questions" with the speech marks kind of shows you're just being an ass. I take it no-one can be bothered to answer the questions?

WHY IS GUESSING IN HITSTUN ANY DIFFERENT TO GUESSING OUTSIDE OF HITSTUN? That's a different way to phrase my question, in case you didn't get it.

I'm not disagreeing with some of your questions. Guessing happens in all facets of fighting games. If there was no mental thinking going on then the game is just automated by computer. Trust me, I've argued the same thing over the years, that those complaining about guessing ignore the fact that it exists in every game whether the player is going to back dash or srk after blocking for example.

However, the problem people have with the 'guessing' in Dead or Alive in comparison to the other fighting games in its genre is to the amount of times you are required to guess, and to the lack of reward from each successful 'guess'. The only time people feel rewarded enough is after successfully 'guessing' 6 to 7 times in a row just to lead into another guessing situation. The danger that one has for attacking in Dead or Alive 4 makes one wary of what they are doing more so than any other fighter. This leads to second guessing and deep levels of mind reading that are very taxing on the brain. In addition you're just not able to tell a lot of data from the small amount of time you get with the opponent to hope you are conditioning them, aren't conditioning them, or even if they are in fact being completely random. Standard game theory proves that even in the most chaotic situations where one player is being completely random, the non-random player will always win out. It's why poker is played in more than one hand ('game/round/match') to decide a winner.

As for your question about 'pushing the same series of buttons', that's due to the hype mechanic of technical skill. A game that not only rewards one for displaying mental skill in option selection, but also requires a degree of technical skill in pulling off route memorization, timing, and positional awareness has its own meta-game as well. People like seeing that the Focus Attack has landed, and they like seeing if the player can effectively maximize this chance they have to technically execute a series of guaranteed attacks. There's merits in both levels of skill, and if you give any guaranteed damage then it's best to require a user to give technical skill over making every single attack in the game do 10 damage and not combo into any other (i.e., without combos the game would be rated on what single move does the most damage).

As for bad design, it's up to how the end game plays. There's many 'games' going on that make it a complex game in the whole. I certainly would not prefer having one attack doing 50% life, and I certainly want to feel rewarded for reading my opponent. It's a balancing act in the end, and how you weigh mental skill and technical skill is up to the designer. For American fighting gamers they tend to want more technical than mental on the average, although I've seen in Japan it's actually the opposite way on the average. They want to feel rewarded for learning the system and applying that time and effort, as well as feeling rewarded for knowing more of the system and its opportunities over another player who is just playing the mind game aspect (going for a 10 dmg jab against a throw instead of going into a launcher against the throw or comboing into another attack to maximize the system and its layers).
 
In doa you have to guess constantly all the time. It's a system where, in most cases, the least safe option for a player is to attack, and nothing is guaranteed. The attacker doesn't get properly rewarded for putting their opponent in a bad situation, because they're always at risk of taking as much or even more damage than they could dish out. That's about it. It's not a complex issue.

You can say what you want about doa being doa and all that, but the fact is that doa has never been a competitive game and even competitive doa players want the systems to change.

Bro the moment you launch a character in the AIR they can longer counter.... lol So at that point your safe to attack arent you ?

And what about the GI in SC... Saying that countering makes the game broken is not correct. It forces you mix up your game so you wont get countered. And Mind you if you see someone countering than grab them. Same as SC.

Also as someone who studied martial arts, I just want everyone to know that most martial arts are based on countering and defending yourself. This is why DOA is more close to real live martial arts. Maybe you had a bad experience with someone who countered you a lot. We should play online sometimes bro, I will help you learn DOA.
 
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