Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

i don't get why this is a huge deal. every fighting game has some amount of guessing in it. there's a slight difference in the risk/reward factor but it's not too different than getting GI'd in Soul Calibur or getting taken off your feet in Tekken. each game revolves around somewhat of a guessing game otherwise it isn't completely fair is it.

that's why counter stuns are in the game. if you "guess" at countering you can either get grabbed or hit again and stunned again. everyone knows that when you try to counter you can get stun hit a lot more times if you fail counter holds. in this game you get stunned trying to counter for four hits. there are some moves you can't counter from in this game. when that happens then you get counter burst. then you're open for anything. so there are rewards for this "guessing".
 
UNDERX said:
I'm sorry I disagree - you are not always guessing. Yes DOA is fast but there are plenty of moves you see coming. And than you "react" to them!
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Sure. If you memorize every single character's canned strings and attacks that work well to keep a stun string going.

Otherwise you're not really reacting to them. It's usually a case of anticipation. You're recognizing broad trends and playing the odds.

For example, if someone got you in a stun in DOA 4, the lowest % reversal was a mid kick since that got its own standalone direction. Best damage option was usually to go for a launcher. Since going for a launcher right away was predictable, most went for a mid kick figuring that a high reversal was the safer bet on the opponent's part since they'd prefer to avoid inescapable damage with a reversal that covered a higher % of incoming attacks anyway.

Least interesting RPS application I've encountered in a FG.
 
Marginal said:
Sure. If you memorize every single character's canned strings and attacks that work well to keep a stun string going.

Otherwise you're not really reacting to them. It's usually a case of anticipation. You're recognizing broad trends and playing the odds.

For example, if someone got you in a stun in DOA 4, the lowest % reversal was a mid kick since that got its own standalone direction. Best damage option was usually to go for a launcher. Since going for a launcher right away was predictable, most went for a mid kick figuring that a high reversal was the safer bet on the opponent's part since they'd prefer to avoid inescapable damage with a reversal that covered a higher % of incoming attacks anyway.

Least interesting RPS application I've encountered in a FG.
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I get all that, and yes there is a fair amount of "analyze -guessing" going on. But there are plenty of moves you see coming. You just have to react fast enough.
 
Look ok, I don't want to start a war here, honestly I don't, I just want someone to explain to me why so many players think something along the lines of:

-DOA is pure guessing
-Counter system is broken
-This kind of thing is no good for fighting games.

Can someone please explain to me why guessing a high/mid/low mix-up is any different to guessing if someone will step, or if someone will crouch, or if someone will do an A grab, or B grab, or DP, or spam jabs, or block, or do an Ultra.

Can they also explain to me why people like to press the same series of buttons over and over again after they land a hit on their opponent.

Can someone also explain to me why getting 50% from one good guess is good and competitive and creates the environment for a serious game, whereas having to make multiple good reads to get 50% is bad design.

Please. Seriously. Someone lay it down for me. Not starting a war. Want a genuine, well-explained answer.
 
In doa you have to guess constantly all the time. It's a system where, in most cases, the least safe option for a player is to attack, and nothing is guaranteed. The attacker doesn't get properly rewarded for putting their opponent in a bad situation, because they're always at risk of taking as much or even more damage than they could dish out. That's about it. It's not a complex issue.

You can say what you want about doa being doa and all that, but the fact is that doa has never been a competitive game and even competitive doa players want the systems to change.
 
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