BatousaiNori
[10] Knight
People are giving you reasons as to why he should be banned to preserve the integrity of the game and your reason for allowing him is namco wouldn't do this if he wasn't balanced. Really?
Critical Edge: A Brief History of Banning...
- Thread starter Jaxel
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Xeph
#TRYHARD
Banning DJ now would be the safest route. As Malice said, "If there's a standard character that gets added, we can go from there."
It seems that you're allowing (sort of) DJ for the off chance that it may bring a surge of new players/Tekken players. There's really nothing pointing to us that we should lean on that theory. As the competitive scene, theories of an influx of fresh players, and opinions/wants from the casual player shouldn't have this much of an effect on our universal rules.
I believe your intentions are in a good place, though, Jaxel. It's good to see you trying to figure out ways to please both sides of the fence. However, yeah... making hard decisions is a must for leadership, but making sure the decision is suitable is what separates good leadership, and mediocrity.
The bottom line is that CaS is banned, it's forever written in stone. Devil Jin is a CaS style. The answer should be obvious.
And to all that are threatening to quit the community whether or not DJ is banned, my girlfriend suggests Tampax.
It seems that you're allowing (sort of) DJ for the off chance that it may bring a surge of new players/Tekken players. There's really nothing pointing to us that we should lean on that theory. As the competitive scene, theories of an influx of fresh players, and opinions/wants from the casual player shouldn't have this much of an effect on our universal rules.
I believe your intentions are in a good place, though, Jaxel. It's good to see you trying to figure out ways to please both sides of the fence. However, yeah... making hard decisions is a must for leadership, but making sure the decision is suitable is what separates good leadership, and mediocrity.
The bottom line is that CaS is banned, it's forever written in stone. Devil Jin is a CaS style. The answer should be obvious.
And to all that are threatening to quit the community whether or not DJ is banned, my girlfriend suggests Tampax.
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
A hypothetical question for all of my friends:
If I mixed a gallon of dogshit and a gallon of ice cream together in a giant bowl, would you want to eat the results? I mean, sure, there's dogshit, but half of it is creamy, delicious ice cream. What? You wouldn't? And here I thought compromise was a virtue to be always lauded.
That's the main issue with this milquetoast compromise proposal--we're being asked to eat dogshit ice cream and like it--but it's also a somewhat clumsy attempt to reframe the debate in balance terms. Yes, there's brief mention of the logistical issues involved, but they're quickly dismissed. The rest of this so-called "history of banning," however, is focused almost exclusively on banning or allowing characters strictly for reasons of balance. Well, that and how much Jaxel wants to compare himself favorably to WCMaxi, which is a different sort of pathology.
Those of us invested in these decisions to any degree have a right to feel condescended to, at this point. After playing around with DJ, I personally feel that he's probably too strong (Tekken movesets do well in the SC system generally, see SC2 Heihachi), but I haven't argued for a ban on those grounds, nor, to my knowledge, has any other person vehemently opposed to allowing DJ. It's incredibly frustrating to see the reasoning beyond issues of balance dismissed so cavalierly.
This whole thing reeks to me of manufactured controversy. Do I think there are legions of rabid fans willing to walk away from our game forever if they can't play DJ in tournaments? No. But still, even if there were, those folks would be out of luck, anyway. EVO and all of the EVO-points majors are banning DJ for a very simple reason: CaS is banned. EVO has been the gold--no, the goddamn platinum--standard in fighting game tournaments forever, and I am very much in favor of taking our cues from them until and unless we are presented with valid reasons to do otherwise.
Ultimately, that should be how we frame this particular debate. It's not a question of history, and it's certainly not a question of balance. Rather, it's a question of whether we should be pushing to add in a CaS exclusive character that is already banned in majors over which we as a community exert no control.
That being the case, the onus should be on the pro-DJ camp, if such a thing exists, to convince us why allowing DJ and inviting the hassle, the friction, and the fragmentation it will inevitably bring before balance can even be considered is in any way worth it.
If I mixed a gallon of dogshit and a gallon of ice cream together in a giant bowl, would you want to eat the results? I mean, sure, there's dogshit, but half of it is creamy, delicious ice cream. What? You wouldn't? And here I thought compromise was a virtue to be always lauded.
That's the main issue with this milquetoast compromise proposal--we're being asked to eat dogshit ice cream and like it--but it's also a somewhat clumsy attempt to reframe the debate in balance terms. Yes, there's brief mention of the logistical issues involved, but they're quickly dismissed. The rest of this so-called "history of banning," however, is focused almost exclusively on banning or allowing characters strictly for reasons of balance. Well, that and how much Jaxel wants to compare himself favorably to WCMaxi, which is a different sort of pathology.
Those of us invested in these decisions to any degree have a right to feel condescended to, at this point. After playing around with DJ, I personally feel that he's probably too strong (Tekken movesets do well in the SC system generally, see SC2 Heihachi), but I haven't argued for a ban on those grounds, nor, to my knowledge, has any other person vehemently opposed to allowing DJ. It's incredibly frustrating to see the reasoning beyond issues of balance dismissed so cavalierly.
This whole thing reeks to me of manufactured controversy. Do I think there are legions of rabid fans willing to walk away from our game forever if they can't play DJ in tournaments? No. But still, even if there were, those folks would be out of luck, anyway. EVO and all of the EVO-points majors are banning DJ for a very simple reason: CaS is banned. EVO has been the gold--no, the goddamn platinum--standard in fighting game tournaments forever, and I am very much in favor of taking our cues from them until and unless we are presented with valid reasons to do otherwise.
Ultimately, that should be how we frame this particular debate. It's not a question of history, and it's certainly not a question of balance. Rather, it's a question of whether we should be pushing to add in a CaS exclusive character that is already banned in majors over which we as a community exert no control.
That being the case, the onus should be on the pro-DJ camp, if such a thing exists, to convince us why allowing DJ and inviting the hassle, the friction, and the fragmentation it will inevitably bring before balance can even be considered is in any way worth it.
soakrates
[09] Warrior
As someone who plans to attend at least two majors this year, I fail to see the point of learning a character that's banned at the tournaments that require the most preparation. Under this rule set, time spent training with Devil Jin is essentially time wasted for many players.
Personally, I'm so goddamned sick of this debate that I'll just defer to what the majority of TOs decide is the best solution, whether that means banning or allowing him (and so far, the consensus seems to lean toward a ban). Failing that, tournaments should just follow the EVO rule set.
When in doubt, Keep It Simple, Stupid.
EDIT: You know what? Fuck it. EVO rules it is. Simple, elegant, and it's easy to tell people who don't like it to fuck off because, well, eat shit, dickhole, it's EVO.
Personally, I'm so goddamned sick of this debate that I'll just defer to what the majority of TOs decide is the best solution, whether that means banning or allowing him (and so far, the consensus seems to lean toward a ban). Failing that, tournaments should just follow the EVO rule set.
When in doubt, Keep It Simple, Stupid.
EDIT: You know what? Fuck it. EVO rules it is. Simple, elegant, and it's easy to tell people who don't like it to fuck off because, well, eat shit, dickhole, it's EVO.
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