Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

[Reave]

Smh @ SC5 stupified.

 

[0VincentRayne0]

Smh @ SC5 stupified.

you don't believe me? one example: there are no A+K except yoshi (whoop-di-do).

no A+K=stupified version of sequel.

second example: removal of low grabs except Asta.

removal of low grabs from multiple characters after having it in one game=stupified version of sequel.

you can see where i'm going.

 

[AKNova7]

Yes.

That's because I don't think it will make the game 'non-competitive'. You have other options available to you as a defender to avoid the initial hit such as crushing attacks, guarding, or stepping. All are viable options that offset the low damage output of holding in stun.

Of course that's true, but that doesn't mean that offense should be hilariously overpowered because of defensive options being snuffed. Balance is important, and, quite honestly, it's not just about the damage from holds, it's about the damage of everything else versus holds. It'll, literally, be the exact opposite of DOA 4 (Holds do lots of damage, offense is meh, but very very fast. Which, was actually somewhat balanced because of free cancels, besides ninjas. In this one, offense would rage and defense would be...meh. It also depends on how much step is viable in the final version of the game.

 

[Age_of_Truth]

Yes.

That's because I don't think it will make the game 'non-competitive'. You have other options available to you as a defender to avoid the initial hit such as crushing attacks, guarding, or stepping. All are viable options that offset the low damage output of holding in stun.

I agree and like how the game's shaping up.

However I gotta ask... I played the demo with Emperor C0w the other day and, although I loved it, the holds still seemed to have a pretty huge active duration, and also seemed to recover pretty fast. Are they definitely nerfed already (besides the damage nerf which is apparent)?

 

[Mr.Wah]

Of course that's true, but that doesn't mean that offense should be hilariously overpowered because of defensive options being snuffed. Balance is important, and, quite honestly, it's not just about the damage from holds, it's about the damage of everything else versus holds. It'll, literally, be the exact opposite of DOA 4 (Holds do lots of damage, offense is meh, but very very fast. Which, was actually somewhat balanced because of free cancels, besides ninjas. In this one, offense would rage and defense would be...meh. It also depends on how much step is viable in the final version of the game.

I think the point is that you feel offensive will be 'hilariously overpowered', but I believe that it was 'tremendously underpowered' in DOA4. I personally feel it was 'about right' in DOA3 and would like to see it returned to such a level. The changes to the hold system so far in my eyes are the correct steps to take to reach those levels. In various instances you are still able to hold in critical state and you are still able to get lots of damage off them in those moments thanks to the advanced holds and normal hold options. The metagame before the critical state is still in tact just as well as it was before and in other fighting games. The only major difference is that DOA provides high instant damage or guaranteed combo from its hold system where most other fighting games will give very little reward for their 'hold' system like parries (Just Guards in SC for example), and that is probably why I don't feel the offense has gone off the rails as much as you claim it to be.

In the end, we may just have to agree to disagree, as it will come down to a matter of preference.

I agree and like how the game's shaping up.

However I gotta ask... I played the demo with Emperor C0w the other day and, although I loved it, the holds still seemed to have a pretty huge active duration, and also seemed to recover pretty fast. Are they definitely nerfed already (besides the damage nerf which is apparent)?

You will find with the E3 demo that holds and the critical state have been altered in a few ways since the Alpha Demo I'm sure.

I don't expect the hold window to change much from the demo, but most definitely I expect the number of situations in which you can perform a hold to be reduced. If the window does change, sure, whatever. haha.