Hate Speech: Hands On

[IdleMind]

Snip

The main problem is GI hasn't really functioned as intended *since* SC1. SC2/3/4's basic game systems either rendered GI moot, or too risky to attempt at a high level of play.

As it stands now, GI is a resource based mechanic.

It still has a price if you whiff it, and if you land it, the opponent must spend resource (meter) to attempt a re-GI. Even so; CE's cannot be re-GI. That said, if you GI into CE you are spending 150% meter. Better be worth it.

There are other X-factors to consider too- Throws cannot be GI, and the general tenor of the game is such that the M/L mixup isn't as big as deal as it used to be. To me this means a GI catching h/m/l and giving a free CE isn't even an issue.

 

[heiligekuh]

SCV is a new game, so you should move away from what was done in the old games. Keep in mind that GI also costs meter.

I'm happy to relearn SCV as a new game, but I'm trying to express what I enjoy about the GI mechanic and how central it seems to what makes SC unique and not just Tekken/DoA with weapons.

 

[heiligekuh]

As it stands now, GI is a resource based mechanic.

It still has a price if you whiff it, and if you land it, the opponent must spend resource (meter) to attempt a re-GI.

That's an interesting and welcome change. Too many people's only impression of the GI mechanic centered around the endless GI-exchanges in training modes, or GI-GI-GI-Throw sequences in casuals.

You mentioned that GI didn't work well in 3 or 4, which I'll take your word on, as even SC2's addition of Evades and X's guaranteed poke eroded the versatility and strength of the GI.

There are other X-factors to consider too- Throws cannot be GI, and the general tenor of the game is such that the M/L mixup isn't as big as deal as it used to be. To me this means a GI catching h/m/l and giving a free CE isn't even an issue.

Could you explain how those three points connect? I can see that having the GI hit h/m/l while failing against throws returns an basic r/p/s balance of the earlier system. You're suggesting that risking meter on a GI read means that a guaranteed CE is an appropriate reward? Hopefully play will bear that out, and perhaps encourage a metagame where baiting the GI is a useful
tactic.

 

[IdleMind]

Could you explain how those three points connect? I can see that having the GI hit h/m/l while failing against throws returns an basic r/p/s balance of the earlier system. You're suggesting that risking meter on a GI read means that a guaranteed CE is an appropriate reward? Hopefully play will bear that out, and perhaps encourage a metagame where baiting the GI is a useful
tactic.

To connect these points, a couple of system changes require in-depth understanding.

The M/L mixup is not the primary mixup of the game anymore***. The short reasoning is: Nerfed Step-G means that Hori/Vert is more powerful as a mixup. Better frames on Verts, plus great guard gauge damage in general, and the prevalence of safe or even +on block verts means you want to step more. Step killers now work; and getting hit out of step = CH. Throws now function strongly as a passive defense stopper, due to chip damage even on break, plus 50/50 break system.

This requires a drastic departure in the view from without. Giving GI the strength to catch all hit levels isn't really a buff, it's pretty much required to make it viable. On top of that, because to use GI in any situation that isn't a string reaction, you are more or less committing yourself to "standing still" passively to find something to GI, you put yourself at risk of all the ways the game hates standing still (as outlined above). To me getting a CE out of GI is a fair trade because it costs 150% meter and a couple of risks. that is my line of reasoning.

***Edit: Also forgot to mention most lows, particularly unseeable tripping or frame advantage ones got nerfed or re-purposed. Mitsu 2KB does not trip on normal hit anymore; but it does on CH and you can CH confirm it. It also reportedly catches step to at least one side (if not both). On top of that, there is a BE (also CH confirmable) and the ability to mixup just naked 2K and 2KB on normal hit. The move has been re-purposed, not nerfed. In other cases, like Cervantes 1K, the move was removed entirely; however he still has 11K which kills step and gives +frames as a low. The gist of this is, lows as a way to "open people up" or as a straight up 50/50 are being toned down or have become very specific: Sig for example has a true 50/50 out of SRSH, but he must induce the situation to bottleneck you into the mixup).

 

[babalook]

maybe because of how quickstep is unsafe people will choose not to do it and instead do normal step Gs. I also remember someone saying that in the TGS build you could cancel quickstep with 6G to make it safer, wonder if this stayed in.