Abusive moderation on this site

[Ceirnian]

Ignis, that quote was in an actual thread used to argue against Hilde / Algol. Plume makes tons of posts in a similar manner (lacking logic). I had to assume it was real which is why I was so baffled I had to put it in my sig.

 

[Tactu]

Thanks Ignis, it feels good to be online posting about SC again. Hopefully I'll get to play with any of you guys from the Seattle area sooner rather than later. I do remember a lot of people from the old days, don't know if anyone would remember me though. :)

Not to hijack the thread, but you do bring up a good point. It's easy for people to get along, even with assholes, even assholes getting along with other assholes. The key is to have a greater purpose to the communication; in this case, getting better at Soul Calibur and sharing stories with others who enjoy the game. I was honest when I said this issue is enough to be noticeable (and irritating) to a lurker, but it has little to do with people being assholes... just people not realizing what the other person is trying to communicate, or communicating the wrong thing to keep the "greater debate" intact and useful.

We're meeting friday! Check out the Seattle thread in the off-line comp. Lies place this Friday, we've been meeting pretty regular.

 

[Swithin]

Great post, Swithin.

Thanks, Archangel. :)

First things first, Swithin, fantastic post. I really like the perspective you brought to the table, you've contributed a lot. Welcome to 8wr.

Hey thanks, it's good to be here. I took a look at the Algol/Hilde thread, and it's a lot less hate-filled now, that's for sure. Still closed though. I don't mean to get on your case at all, but there's something you said that I kinda want to bring up:

Personal Opinion doesn't cut it as Evidence, I'd want to see tournament results, gameplay footage from events where every player and spectator can be assured that those events were graced by players who MATTERED. All we've been getting from the countless threads and posts is Personal Opinion.

I totally get what you're saying, but I think there's a bit of a disconnect here on two points. S-U isn't talking about tournament results, he's talking about tournament turn-out. He even mentioned that Hilde's and Algol's actual game-play strength aren't the issue, it's how people perceive them, what they expect. It's the "do I go to the tourney today with my Mina and get creamed by another Hilde, or hang out with my gf?" question. I don't think he's suggesting that bans are the answer to that - he didn't suggest anything at all, in fact. If this really is going to be a big problem amongst the players who don't "matter" yet, and there is a potential non-ban solution, he said he's looking for it. Everyone just assumed he's talking about bans.

The second thing is how do we divide the players who "matter" from the players who don't? This is a forum, not tryouts for a national team. As I see it (and again, 8WR really isn't my place yet,) the forums should be a place where pure skill doesn't determine how much your opinion matters, rather thoughtful and productive posting do. He did the leg work, he counted heads, that is evidence, not personal opinion. One person can't check the turn-out of every local across the country, but if they notice a dramatic trend like that at an event they attend regularly... that should meet the criteria for calling it to attention.

What it sounds like to me is that S-U is saying the community needs to do something about the PR of Hilde and Algol (mostly Hilde,) make them seem less of an insurmountable challenge for the people who apparently have stopped showing up because of them. If I were good enough and cared enough, I'd start working on breaking the anti-Hilde strats character-by-character and handing them out on fliers at every single local event. I'd even exaggerate with the title: BEAT HILDE USING ANY CHARACTER WHILE HARDLY TRYING. If that's what people need to hear, need to feel is at least possible, then the community should focus on getting that message out or it will shrink. And that's completely different from a ban conversation, which was the point S-U was trying (but apparently failed) to make. It seems like this shit has gone around so many times people just hear what they expect to hear and few people noticed.

Look, I voted for the Algol ban in 08, based on what the character *could* do. I was anti-VC back in the day and I panicked, shot first and asked questions later. I'm not sure that was the wrong decision, really. I wasn't worried about Algol dominating the entire game (that would just be too damn boring to go on,) just dominating perceptions. It seems like he's not really ban-worthy after all, in game-breaking terms... not so sure about community-breaking terms though. If characters are going to be 800lb gorillas for the majority of mid-low level players and you don't ban them, you've got to deal with their impact nonetheless or you still face the consequences of how people perceive them, and nobody was talking about that - just about how anyone who voted to ban him was a "scrub". Not fun to be called that - I'm not afraid to face a good Algol, that was never the point. It wasn't about winning more, it was about the health of the game. There are two conversations going on about Hilde right now - one is outright whining, and the other is about mitigating the damage she causes to the scene simply by being in the game. My take on the solution is to open a (edit: sticky?) thread for the first one where people can shout their lungs out about how much they hate her without getting insulted for it (and let the mods wipe any bitchy posts out of all other threads,) and let S-U or whoever run a discussion about how to get people to stop fearing her.

Sorry if that sounded aggressive, I pulled an all-nighter last night and I just got back from class. I'm still a little loopy. :)

We're meeting friday! Check out the Seattle thread in the off-line comp. Lies place this Friday, we've been meeting pretty regular.

Dude, I can't this Friday. Not only do I have three finals Mon/Tues, but I'm prepping for my first DM session on a long-running campaign Sat (huge nerd, I know, should be doing homework... or playing SC.) I'll check out the match-finder thread, and show up next week if I'm in town (might go to California with my gf for spring break.) Thanks for the invite though - I might not drive all the way down to Federal Way or whatever, but if there's game in Seattle / U District / East Side I'll definitely meet all you guys. I'll try to bring a good Taki player I know with me, too. (edit: cool, I'll see you guys there.)

PS - Whoever tagged this thread as "scrubs" and "whiners" really isn't helping anyone's cause.

 

[Tactu]

Lies is in Redmond. If you're coming from seattle you might want to carpool with Greatone and sweets. Hope to see you in a few weeks when school is out.

 

[Plume]

I'll just keep it short and as clear as possible.

That's the definition of a troll, too stupid to understand anybody else telling them something. I'm not a troll; I give my opinion, and listen to yours; it doesn't have to change mine, but god damnit if you don't listen and post a response, you're no better than a rock.

There are two opinions on this issue.
The opinion of countless people who can't deal with Hilde and Algol...
Versus the opinion of Hilde and Algol players, all the 10 of them.

Which one do you think is the most important?
Should the organizers keep the 10 Hilde and Algol players happy, or should they keep the 500+ others happy instead?



Edit: And that quote is saying exactly what Something-Unique said in his thread.
Algol and Hilde seem to be ruining everything because of how they're seen by the high majority of players, no matter how balanced you think they might be.
You should matter less than the huge amount of potential players who stay away because of these two characters.
But of course it's easier to quote one sentence that sounds illogical for anyone unable to understand the real meaning, rather than a whole post from S-U.