If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out...

[Wyzt]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Atoms are not invisible to KingAce. I remember quite distinctly this from an old soulcalibur.com thread which firmly established for me that he is an absolute moron (He linked a picture of a Bohr model, which, unless he is extra special, is not anything what an atom looks like). Don't bother arguing with this guy, it's like trying to play mind games with a button masher, there's nothing really going on in his head.

This right here was the funniest thread ever created...the whole part about seeing atoms that look like the Bohr ones...hahahaha...someone dig up a link stat!

That reasoning is entirely flawed and I don't know about you, but I've never come to that conclusion. It's just complete bullshit and the cause and effect have absolutely NOTHING to do with each other.

This is worded really weird...causes and effects do have something to do with each other....but the wording is correlation does not mean causation... If you light something on fire and it burns they do have something to do with each other... I get what you were saying though, just clarifying.

My favorite example is from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster...The decrease in the pirate population caused global warming.

 

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

This is worded really weird...causes and effects do have something to do with each other....but the wording is correlation does not mean causation... If you light something on fire and it burns they do have something to do with each other... I get what you were saying though, just clarifying.

My favorite example is from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster...The decrease in the pirate population caused global warming.

You missed the point of his post. It was not that causality did not exist, but that the cause and effect argument presented by KingAce was completely arbitrary.

Atoms are not invisible to KingAce. I remember quite distinctly this from an old soulcalibur.com thread which firmly established for me that he is an absolute moron (He linked a picture of a Bohr model, which, unless he is extra special, is not anything what an atom looks like). Don't bother arguing with this guy, it's like trying to play mind games with a button masher, there's nothing really going on in his head.

One can always hope. Most people haven't taken a basic philosophy course (or basic chemistry, for that matter) to know better. You're not an inferior person if you haven't, but it certainly helps you understand your situation better, and the ability to discern when arguments have no logical basis.

 

[KoshTheKoala]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

This is worded really weird...causes and effects do have something to do with each other....but the wording is correlation does not mean causation... If you light something on fire and it burns they do have something to do with each other... I get what you were saying though, just clarifying.

My favorite example is from the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster...The decrease in the pirate population caused global warming.

Causation as well, but also correlation. The color of a car has no correlation nor causation with the density of uranium within normal experience (so no, you do not paint your car uranium).

But you're correct, I wrote that poorly. Instead of:"Cause and effect are entirely unrelated."
I should have written: "Your 'cause' and 'effect' are not cause and effect at all and are actually entirely unrelated. One does not lead to the other, and the truth of one has no effect on the truth of the other."

 

[Wyzt]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

You missed the point of his post.

I understood it, just the wording didn't sit well with me.

EDIT: I know why it felt weird...it was because I read the third line "Cause and effect are entirely unrelated." as disconnected from the rest, as just a statement, instead of THAT cause and effect. I need sleep.

EDIT2: And thats exactly what Kosh posted just above me...haha.

 

[Kix]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

All that follows from God's foreknowledge of what you will choose to do is that you shall choose to do it. Not that you could not choose otherwise. If God were to know A, you are not choosing A because God knows it, God just knows what your choice will be. If you were to choose B, then God's knowledge would be different, but you are still choosing. It does not follow that if God knows absolutely what you were to do then you are not choosing to do it. How God knows a choice before it happens is not the issue, this isn't a contradiction.

You're assuming there are no natural laws for "outside" the Universe, or that the outside of the Universe even exists. Then you make up rules (or lack thereof) for this realm, and declare it non-contradicting. In the words of Richard Dawkins, "That's just too easy, isn't it?".

If that is the case, how can we tell the difference between this supernatural realm and the nonexistent?

Of course there would be no natural laws applied to supernatural realities. You can deduce the supernatural realm with deductive arguments and evidence. For instance the universe beginning to exist. Dawkins is a joke when it comes to philosophy, so wouldn't even mention him.

As far as we know, it does not defy logic, but merely shows that we don't currently have a solid understanding of the concepts of self causality, or the ability for the object to come into existence without a prior action behind it. See the Casimir Effect for the idea of something that is uncaused (vacuum energy), based in part on the planck constant.

Something that does not have a nature cannot bring itself into existence because it has no nature to do so. Something beginning to happen without a cause contradicts experience. If the universe came to exist out of nothing and for nothing when nothing else we see does, why do assume it would have come out of nothing, uncaused? If this were the case why doesn't everything and anything pop into being out of nothing all of the time? After all, there should be no probability rate on something which has no nature whatsoever. If you would never assume this for something else, say like a dog coming around the corner, why just the universe?