Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown

[Kenjitsu_Hokori]

Oh.

Oh, so Virtua Fighter has full frame data, but SCV doesn't.

I see how it is.

Well... It depends Drake >_>X. Do you like to study every nook and cranny for frames cause VF is VERY VERY frame heavy. Other fighters yeah you learn stuff but then when you play VF they want you to learn every angle and frame your character does xD. It can be a full workout for the brain.

 

[CarteBlanche]

You don't need to learn all the frames.
First off every characters' frames are pretty similar so once you know the frames for one character, you can understand the frames for every characters.

Secondly, all you really need to know is whether your move is safe/unsafe, and leaves you at frame advantage or disadvantage. How much exactly? That does not matter until later, and even then it's not that big of a deal and quite intuitive.
Also, the great majority of moves are SAFE on block, so the amount of unsafe moves you need to keep in mind is very small.


If you blocked a knee launcher, punish it with a relatively quick launcher of you own. If you blocked something else and you think it's unsafe but you're not really sure, try to punish it with P,K or 6P.
Once you have that foundation, you're free to build up on it at your own personal speed.

Don't regard VF as a game where you need to study for a university exam, because it really is not.
In SC and Tekken, you need to pay attention to frames, you need to learn many different punishers because the differences are very important, especially because so many moves are punishable on block, unlike VF where nearly everything is safe so specific punishers matter less.
You don't need extensive character-specific (or "match-up") knowledge.
VF is more about being a smart player and having solid basics, and it's less about knowing all the little details like in SC/Tekken.

 

[DrakeAldan]

Well... It depends Drake >_>X. Do you like to study every nook and cranny for frames cause VF is VERY VERY frame heavy. Other fighters yeah you learn stuff but then when you play VF they want you to learn every angle and frame your character does xD. It can be a full workout for the brain.

It's just the principle of the thing.

Having full frame data available says to me that the developers aren't keeping any secrets. i.e. if you want to put time into the game and learn, there it is. Full disclosure, no BS, no excuses.

When this game came out, half of Nightmare players did not know his frames, much less their opponents.
I'm just saying.

VF is more about being a smart player and having solid basics, and it's less about knowing all the little details like in SC/Tekken.

That's good to hear. I'm really thinking about playing this casually after EVO.

 

[DrakeAldan]

The "Easy Throw Escape" piqued my interest. I know in 4 at least (if I remember my tutorial mode correctly) there were situations where you had to input a bunch of throw escapes at one time to be safe, and it was like "wut"

and like now, not only is it forward-back-neutral, but you don't have to have great reactions, you just have to know that it's coming.

That's great. This is really what I mean, like with having full frame data before- if there is anything I absolutely despise in fighting games, it's artificial barriers to entry- having to work and grind just before you can play the game.

(Tekken is especially guilty of this- no frame data disclosure, throw escapes as a skill you MUST develop separately or you are free to throws all day, jinking/backdash cancelling being a skill you MUST learn or else you're a sitting duck...

As a sidenote- noodalls is a great guy- I love the work he does- but he shouldn't have to do it. You shouldn't have to have programmable sticks and recording setups just to know more about the game. I don't think that's right at all. I would even go so far as to pay the developer directly for information than to jump through reverse engineering hurdles.)

Part of why I like playing SoulCalibur is that the barriers to entry are low... you can hide throw escapes in your guard, movement is easy, combos (usually) aren't extended affairs. The focus is on using your brain, not having robo-hands, and from what it looks like, this VF is all about that.

(I would argue that having low barriers to entry makes it easier to bring new players into the userbase, and by association generate more revenue for the developers. But, in practice, that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case, unfortunately...)

 

[CarteBlanche]

Throw escapes were not really about reaction in VF5 vanilla. In SOME cases you could maybe react, but usually it was option select stuff, like ETEG. Evade, Throw Escape, Guard.
It's still that way in FS, but it's easier to execute and more of a mind game, and now you can simply block normally and throw escape at the same time like in SC, which was impossible before.

In my second link above ( http://www.twitch.tv/ultrachentv/b/320416701 ), LA Akira explains some advanced stuff, like failed evade crouch-dash-canceled into EasyTE, which is an option select. Also the more simple but very important Fuzzy Guard option select... As well as some general tactics against some types of players.


So, there is some execution needed, but it's not really a barrier, and it's not as difficult as Tekken and SF execution stuff. It's not like you constantly perform these sequences, either, but it might depend on who you're fighting against and what their habits are.