Supreme Commander 2!

Well thats one of my complaints... you talk about how macro-managing your economy in Starcraft is such a huge thing; obviously you haven't played SupCom1 much... SupCom1 had by far the most complicated and intense economy of any RTS ever made. Now in SupCom2, and from what I hear, Starcraft2 as well, both economy systems are trivial. RTS games these days are more about micro than macro; and thats why I liked Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander 1, because they put macro above micro. Unlike Command & Conquer which had a complicated resource system in the first game, but threw it away after the second. And Starcraft has never had a complicated resource system; neither has Warcraft.

Games these days get dumbed down to appeal to wider audiences. We see it in everything, Halo is popular because its a dumbed down shooter. World of Warcraft is popular because its a dumbed down MMORPG. And now Supreme Commander 2 is being dumbed down because they are trying to appeal to a wider audience and the game is obviously built for Xbox Live. The problem is, who is Gas Powered Games trying to appeal to? People who like these kinds of RTS games, will flock to Starcraft2 and Command & Conquer 5. People who appeal to the TA style of RTS, who loved SupCom1 will be turned off because of the changes. Basically I think GPG isn't going to be making ANYONE happy with this game.

That being said, after reading the reviews for SupCom2 and finishing the campaign... these reviewers have no idea what they are talking about. They talk about the campaign being a waste of time, extremely easy and a laughable story. What? SupCom2 has one of the better stories I've seen in an RTS; and the Cybran campaign is fucking HARD... and a treat. The Cybran campaign is full of surprise after surprise. During one mission you are storming an automated base, which has gone haywire. It only has engineer-bots who are building anti-air sites. But its pumping out massive numbers of engineers who are storming your base and converting your units. Fucking awesome.

Did I mention the bad guy throughout the game is a GAY Cybran (read: Robot) Commander? As much as I don't like the game, I am enjoying it. Gay robot at around 5 minutes in the video below...

[youtubeHD=Gameplay]T9bczo2K4jQ[/youtubeHD]
 
"Complicated" resource system /= good macro.

And SC2's resource macro is more involved than SC1's anyway. The only way they could have made the macro any more action intensive would be if they'd kept the UI stuck in the 90s. Hint hint.
 
page, wtf are you talking about? I don't get why you keep on harping on and on about SupCom1's UI system, its exactly the same as Starcraft's UI system (and by default, Starcraft2's UI system, since it has hardly changed), yet no one complained about that UI system either. Just because SupCom2's UI system is revolutionary, doesn't mean that SupCom1's UI system was horrid. SupCom1's resource macro was WAY more intensive than the current macro system; I'm starting to doubt you played SupCom1 at all.

With SupCom2 the resource system involves: make power plants, make mass extractors on mass deposits, have your engineers collect mass from conquered enemies, and if your race allows it, occasionally use mass conversion. Thats it, very simple. SupCom1's resource management involves everything above, plus: expand storehouses and capacitors so you can hold more mass and energy, build mass conversion structures since mass deposits are so rare, and then FIGHT WITH YOUR LIFE to protect these valuable structures.

So much was involved managing your resources that 80% of your base was non warfaring structures. Ya know... now that I think about it, SupCom2's UI is almost exactly the same as SupCom2's UI, the only thing that has changed is the HUD... in which case, as I said before, SupCom1's HUD is exactly the same as Starcraft's HUD. As for the UI itself, thats what makes SupCom so good... the strategic zoom, the build queues, the modifiable patrol routes, the ability to see consumption and generation rates... No other RTS has things like these.
 
For an RTS, the UI is all about KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS. If all you're doing is pointing and clicking, then you have no right to be talking about user interfaces with an RTS... or you're an idiot playing on an Xbox controller. Not only does each and every unit have individual shortcuts for actions like any other RTS (like P for patrol, or A for attack), but SupCom also has a whole wealth of other shortcuts which make it so much easier to handle your armies, and relieves the stress on micromanagement...

My favorite function is the shift key. Holding shift will let you add actions to a unit's queue, or edit EXISTING actions within the queue. Lots of RTS games have patrol system; but no RTS lets you edit the patrol except SupCom. With other RTS, you have to redraw the patrol, if you wan't to change it. With SupCom, holding shift will bring up all waypoints on the map and you can freely drag and drop them.

===========
1. CONTROLS
===========


Most controls are intuitive and/or covered by the tutorial, but there are a
couple quirks to make note of. Note that all modifiers (Shift, Ctrl, Alt,
etc.) can be freely combined, except where otherwise stated.

One particularly useful shortcut the manual lacks is:
Ctrl + Z: Select all units of the selected type(s) on the map.
For example, if bombers are group 4, pressing 4, Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+4 at any time
will make sure all your bombers are in group 4 so they can strike when the
time is right. You could also zoom out, double-click a bomber, and Ctrl+4.


--------------------
1.1. SELECTING UNITS
--------------------


Left Click: Select unit
Double Left Click: Select all units of this type on screen
Left Click on nothing: Deselect all units
Left Click and drag: Select all units in this box
* If your selection is primarily mobile units, only the mobile units
will be selected. The game will also guess which type of unit you meant.

1: Select all units in Group 1
Ctrl + 1: Set selected units as Group 1
Shift + 1: Add group 1 to your selection
Shift + Ctrl + 1: Select the factories in Group 1
* All 10 number keys work for making/selecting groups.
* Units can belong to multiple groups.
* Your groups will appear as icons on the right side of the screen.
* When selecting a group, factories will not be selected by default.
* Factories give their group numbers to units they build.
Shift + click on unit icon: Add idle engineer to this group

Ctrl + X: Select all units and buildings
Ctrl + A: Select all air units
Ctrl + S: Select all sea units
Ctrl + L: Select all land units
Ctrl + B: Select all engineers and the Commander
Ctrl + Z: Select all units of this type on the map

Ctrl + C: Select all units and buildings on screen
Ctrl + Period: Select all engineers on screen
Ctrl + H: Select all factories on screen

Comma: Go to Commander
Alt + Comma: Select Commander

Period: Go to nearest idle engineer
Alt + Period: Select nearest idle engineer
Shift + Period: Cycle through idle engineers

H: Select nearest factory
Ctrl + Shift + L: Select nearest land factory
Ctrl + Shift + A: Select nearest air factory
Ctrl + Shift + S: Select nearest naval factory


------------------
1.2. GIVING ORDERS
------------------


Right Click: Give default order
* On terrain: Move
* On enemies: Attack
* Engineers will Capture enemies instead.
* On allies or construction: Assist
* Engineers will Repair construction instead.
* Transports will Transport allied units instead.
* On transports: Transport
* On ferry points: Transport
* Transports will Ferry from that ferry point instead.
* On a Move waypoint: Patrol (UNDOCUMENTED)
* On an Attack waypoint: Coordinated Attack
* Coordinated Attacks must be issued in reverse order of
speed: artillery first, aircraft last. All groups will attack simultaneously.

Right Click and hold: Move in formation
Ctrl + Right Click: Move in default formation
* While holding Right Click, press Left Click to cycle through
formations.
* Taking formation takes priority over arriving at the location. Units
at the front may actually go backwards to accomplish this.
Ctrl + Alt + Right Click: Attack Move
Attack + Left Click on ground: Attack Move
* Attack Move instructs units to pursue enemies before completing
their move order. It is denoted as a red line with a blue Move waypoint.

Shift + Right Click: Queue this command after the current one
Shift + Left Click and hold on a command: Move the location of this command

R: Repair
E: Reclaim
P: Patrol
* Engineers set to Patrol will automatically Repair and Reclaim.
A: Attack
C: Capture
S: Stop
D: Dive / Surface
F: Ferry
* A transport told to Ferry will create a ferry beacon at its current
location and start ferrying units to the chosen destination.
I: Assist
* Engineers and the Cybran Mantis will Repair units they are assisting.
* Other units will deploy in protective formation around the unit.
* Factories will take on the build queue and default orders of the
factory they are assisting.
* Transports assisting a factory will transport to help carry out the
default orders of the factory.
* Air units assisting a ferry beacon will attempt to help ferry.
M: Move
U: Transport
* Press Transport once to load and again to unload.
Z: Pause Construction
* Pausing constructions
O: Overcharge
L: Launch Tactical Missile
N: Nuke
[: Toggle Fire State (left bracket)
* Toggles between Fire At Will, Hold Fire and Hold Ground.
Ctrl + K: Kamikaze (Suicide)

There are no shortcuts for upgrading units, toggling on/off cloaking and
stealth, sacrificing, docking, or ordering factories to repeat orders; they
must be manually clicked in the interface or Build Mode.


-------------
1.3. BUILDING
-------------


Left Click on unit picture: Build 1 unit/structure
Shift + Left Click: Build 5 units
Right Click: Cancel building 1 unit/structure
Shift + Right Click: Cancel building 5 units/structures

Left Click on the map and hold: Build structures in this line
Shift + Ctrl + Right Click on a structure outline: Cancel building this
structure

B: Toggle Build Mode
* In Build Mode, keyboard shortcuts refer to each individual building.
* For more about Build Mode, see later sections of this guide.
Esc: Exit Build Mode


-------------------------
1.4. CAMERA AND INTERFACE
-------------------------


Space Bar and hold: Move camera freely
Q: Zoom In
W: Zoom Out
Ctrl + Q: Zoom In Fast
Ctrl + W: Zoom Out Fast
T: Track unit
Ctrl + Shift + T: Track unit on minimap
Ctrl + Alt + T: Track unit on 2nd screen
Tab: Go to next saved camera position
Shift+Tab: Save this camera position
Ctrl+Tab: Delete camera position
Ctrl+V: Set this camera position as the default view
V: Reset camera
Ctrl + F: Take screenshot

Y: Open Minimap menu

Markers for Allies:
F5: Mark location as "General Alert"
F6: Mark location as "Move"
F7: Mark location as "Attack"
* These three markers disappear after 10 seconds.
F8: Custom marker for location
Shift + Ctrl + Right Click: Remove custom marker
Shift + Left Click and drag: Move custom marker (allies can do this)


Esc: Open Escape menu
* In the campaign or skirmish, this will pause the game.
Alt + Up Arrow or Alt + Down Arrow: Toggle UI
There are four possible UIs:
Default: Bottom of the screen
Left side of the screen
Right side of the screen
Minimalist: Small and transparent at the bottom of the screen
Ctrl + Alt + F1: Toggle UI on/off
Alt + L: Toggle lifebars on/off
Ctrl + N: Rename unit
Home: Split screen on
End: Split screen off
PageUp: Scroll up 1 page through chat history
PageDown: Scroll down 1 page through chat history
Shift + PageUp: Scroll up 1 line through chat history
Shift + PageDown: Scroll down 1 line through chat history

Ctrl + W: Toggle military overlay (shows weapon ranges)
Ctrl + E: Toggle defense overlay (changes icon colors)
Ctrl + R: Toggle economy overlay (shows resource usage)
Ctrl + T: Toggle intel overlay (shows radar ranges)

F1: Toggle objectives window
F2: Toggle scores
F3: Toggle transmission log
F4: Toggle diplomacy window
F11: Toggle connectivity window
F12: Show Key Bindings Screen

Pause: Pause game
Minus on numpad: Decrease game speed
Plus on numpad: Increase game speed
Star on numpad: Reset game speed to +0
Click to expand...
 
Man what? I've never heard anyone say a good thing about SupCom1's UI/interface pre-expansion. I'll admit that I didn't play the game that much, but I can't recall anything especially good about it. Tactical zoom is tactical zoom, and it's a nice alternative to a minimap, but everything else was just kind of clunky and awkward.

Starcraft 2 has added loads to the UI. To the point where people say it's been dumbed down, as above. Everything from workers automatically splitting for minerals to multiple building selection. These things cut down on the macro by a huge amount at higher levels, which is why Blizzard added extra economic macro to make up for it. In fact, even the unit AI was improved so much that they had to modify the worker's mining rates to keep things sane.

Now Supreme Commander and Starcraft are two different games with two different intentions and two different audiences. They're loosely connected by genre definitions, but that's about it. I wouldn't compare them the way I would C&C and SC. I just happen to not like what SupCom does and what it's about. Opinions and all that. My main point is still that I don't see the importance of pure macro in an RTS when TBS can do it better and doesn't require any micro. If that's what you want -- macro strategy, not micro -- then there's a genre that's been around way longer than RTS that is dedicated to JUST that.

It's kind of the way I find Sword of the Stars to be a dumb idea for a game since it basically cuts out all of the 4X and replaces it with really slow and boring real time nothingness. Why bother? The games still going to take 3 hours minimum to play out, and they're making the real time aspect so trivial that it's almost a gimmick.
 
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