SoulCast Episode #3: Hates

[Signia]

The counter to backdash was rushdown with mid/low/throw mixup, supported with continuous guard damage pressure. All of these things could lead to your downfall, so there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

The spacing meta game works like this.

Whiff punishment is layer 1 with both people playing footsies. When you know your opponent is going to wait for whiff punishment, you switch to rushdown (layer 2) and put them into a close range mixup. When they know you are trying to rushdown, they will start using keepout (layer 3) of quick, short range panic button options. When they start using keepout, you go back to whiff punishment (layer 1) by tricking them into using their keepout options prematurely and then punishing them for it.

At no point did any of this require a nerf to backstepping. If you want to keep someone intimidated at close range you put them in a legit frame trap when your rushdown window opens up. This backstep nonsense is basically just turning the game into easy mode for people.

That spacing metagame is still functioning, though it's a bit more complicated than that, which is why you've missed how changing the recovery frames of the backdash affects it. All the patch change did is change what immediate attacks will beat backdashing at what ranges. With backdash the way it was, it was too easy to space in such a way that forced your opponent to have to move forward in order to enforce any kind of mixup.

And I don't think I have to explain how forcing the mixup you laid out greatly favors the one keeping out. With a safe backdash, you're almost always able to force this mixup or get away scot-free as long as you space moderately well.

I'm Astaroth. From the moment the round starts I can hit you if you backdash. The only way you can get out of this range is if I let you, pure and simple. Does that sound like good gameplay to you?

With what? immediate 4A and bullrush don't seem to reach, anything that does reach can be backdash G'd.

Fighting games ultimately come down to yomi and there have to be safe'ish ways to scout your enemies response. Otherwise you are gambling with everything 100% of the time.

I think this is more of a problem with the game's high damage more than anything... I agree, it's very difficult to get a good read on your opponent before a short 2-3 tournament match set is over.

Last time I played VF was back during VF4:Evo, so bare with me. I seem to remember the game giving you a lot more defensive options to play with though, and also being able to break every possible throw attempt your enemy had while sidestepping. I imagine under a system like that, counter-hits would indeed be in order to stop it from being too powerful of a system.

hah, funny they actually got rid of multi-throw escape in FS and the break system is now like SC where you have to choose one, except there are three throw break directions instead of SC's two.

 

[IdleMind]

I think this is more of a problem with the game's high damage more than anything... I agree, it's very difficult to get a good read on your opponent before a short 2-3 tournament match set is over.

This, this, 1000 times this. I've been saying this since day 1. You can't expect people to make educated reads when you aren't given enough time to make a mental cache of reads. Though, again, tournaments seem to be moving towards 3/5 as a standard tournament set too. That might help.