So uh, hey...

[redpanda]

Hey guys, I've been lurking a bit here for the past week or so, and decided to join 'cos I have a few questions, and this seems like a pretty cool community. First off, an introduction of sorts: I've been playing Soul Calibur since Soul Edge came out. I remember it as an awesome game, but I tried to play it a few months ago and it was so difficult it made me cry. It turns out, it wasn't that great of a game (yeah, that's arguable), but still really cool for its time. Then some time later I got SC II for the Gamecube, which was really fun. And then finally after playing SC IV on some friends' consoles, I took the plunge and bought it myself. It's fun a lot of times, and really, really aggravating a lot of times as well.

After I started to play online, and subsequently got my ass kicked in just about every match, I decided to learn the game a bit more. Eventually that brought me here. Hopefully it's cool if I ask some questions. ^ ^;

First off, how do you even begin to start learning a character? Do you learn some useful combos, or go through their entire moveset, memorise all of the framedata, or what? How involved is it? I've seen you guys talking about moves for a bunch of different characters, and it's rather daunting. Mitsu's 2B may be something to watch out for during a match, but then so is Astaroth's 1A, and Tira's 44K, and on and on.... And then all of those moves have distinct properties, like the animation, and specific framedata... how does any one remember all of this, especially under pressure? o.O

What exactly do you do in battle? Do you have a set of opening moves you like to mess around with, or do you see what your opponent is doing first? Is there anything that's really stupid to do?

Uhm, I guess that's it for now. It seems like a ton of memorisation, but I'm a bit eager to not lose every single online match I play (there's not really a local scene around here). >.> Thank you in advance for any answers, I really appreciate it!

 

[Suirad]

First of all welcome to 8wr.

To try to give some answers to your questions, let's try specifically what does one do with all this information to begin. The question of how to learn everything is way to broad so I'm going to suggest to start with that you just ignore the specifics outright.

Context is really important when looking at lists of data. Increasingly information compiled on game sites is getting to be more and more meticulous and it really can be useful. However understanding how the game works in general is a much better starting point, because all the combo lists, frame data and what have you won't do you much good if you don't understand why they should matter and what it is you are looking for. Experience is really key to this, although talking to people who already have understanding is useful as well.

Before you learn a character you want to know basics, how do mid/low/high/SMid/Slow work? How do you move and what is the purpose. Understand general game flow, that usually when you've been hit by an opponent's High or Mid, or been knocked down you are probably not ok to attack, but that if you've been hit by a low or blocked an attack you likely are. Once you understand these things it is probably helpful to understand different move purposes, what is an interrupt, what are good options against a defending opponent, what moves are good for "punishing", which can be used to control opponent's movement, etc.

After you get that you can try to break down a characters moves into what your options are to fulfill the different roles. This is the step that the data starts becoming useful, it can help suggest what the benefits and downsides of certain moves are with respect to each other, when coupled with ones own experience with the moves. Once you understand your own character you can try to understand how other characters interact with yours and why sometimes moves working well against one character, might be less effective than others against a different character.

In concluding this post I'd like to reiterate that there is an awful lot to learn and also say that there is an inter-relatedness between one's own experience, the data and the human element that takes simultaneous effort on all fronts to better come to terms with.

Do you have a set of opening moves you like to mess around with, or do you see what your opponent is doing first? Is there anything that's really stupid to do?

Now I'll double post to try to answer this briefly. Part of whether you start the fight aggressively and whether you back off has to do with your character and what you are up against. Good players are probably(not always) going to take the initiative at least until they have the lead in the round, which could force the opponent to overstretch themselves trying to catch back up. They may continue pressing whenever they can find an advantage regardless, depending on their character and disposition. Having said that, it is almost never a bad idea to simply backstep cautiously at the beginning of a fight and get your offense started from a less well defined time and place.
As for stupid things to do? Don't do moves that when they miss, miss spectacularly. New players for example will latch on to Kilik's 6A+B for some reason. If someone sidesteps that move they might as well be able to eat your soul as much as damage as you're about to take for missing. Don't attack ALL the time and don't guard ALL the time, there is a balance between the two that has to do with what is happening at any given moment of play. Trying to grasp the flow in the moment can be a difficult, but recognizing that it is there is a good first step.

 

[Destinizish]

Suirad pretty much covered what I would have answered with and then some.

However, I'll add a bit to the second question:

When thinking about "A certain set of opening moves," I can say that yes, I do have a certain amount of things I do with each character I play. However, this almost always depends on which one I'm playing, and what matchup I'm fighting against. For example, with Setsuka, (I use her as an example because I have the most knowledge in her) when I start a match, there's a limited set of tools I can use at the range the match starts at. Two of her better tools at that range are 66A and 33B. With that in mind, I look at my opponents tools. If I judge them to be better (which isn't often considering how good 33B is) I'll probably wait, start moving, and see what they do. If I judge them to be worse, I'll probably make some kind of aggressive play. However, playing like that also does come down to knowing who you're about to fight, as well. If I know the guy I'm fighting is a player who loves to be aggressive, I might start the game by baiting them into a counter hit. Suirad is right when he says backstep is never a bad choice, though, as it really isn't. It's pretty much the safest option for every character.

So yes, It's good to know your character's more powerful tools at that range, as well as your opponents, so you know what kind of advantage or disadvantage you have at the start.

Anywho, welcome to 8way, hope you have a good time here!

 

[garjian]

well, this will sound horrible in comparison to those two... hmmm... i prefer to make things less daunting anyway...
...the way i learnt was by learning from losses... taking the opponents strategy and combos in my head, learning it and the reasons i lost and why it was used, and then practicing against it, perhaps trying to improve it and seeing if its as good as it could be... that way i gained a good understanding of how to use each character, and how to defend common strategies, and from that you eventually get deeper learning where not to attack, and where theres crouching frame in an opponents move and... what not to retaliate with and stuff... and once youve got all that, you can expand on it yourself ^^
it feels a lot more natural to me that way than learning a list of numbers and weighing them all up in the heat of a match... ive never really even looked at frame data (except to find out whether something has positive frames or not)

 

[Synraii]

I suggest you learn Siegfried - he's a good starting character, our soul arena is pretty friendly and I just finished a guide for beginners (subtle advertising) so I'm sure you'd learn a lot with us.
Anyway, welcome to 8wayrun! :)