Petition to get Soul Calibur V on GGPO

SC4 works out to 8kb per second of data, I measured it once. Looks like my thread on this was deleted or lost or something. The problem is not bandwidth (would fit easily in a dial-up modem), its purely one of distance and latency. No matter how good your code is, you cannot overcome the latency caused by physical distance and all of the network nodes between you and your opponent.

The thing is, i even played someone who lives 15!! minutes aways from me, and the connection was still shit!! No matter if it was a 5 bar connection, SCIV Online is one of the biggest online MP jokes i´ve ever faced in games to be honest.
 
The resources being taxed when people talk about ggpo and 3d fighters are not online resources, they are cpu resources. Simply put, current gen systems may not be powerful enough to run ggpo alongside a game like Soulcalibur 5. If that were true then things would have to be changed for online play (this already happens in some console games, mostly fps), lower res textures, less animations, less effects. At the very least. It has nothing to do with network resources.

Even ggpo users will have encountered this, specifically with 3rd Strike. If your computer can run 3rd Strike at full fps, at whatever res, offline, no stutters, no slowdown at all, it still may not be powerful enough to run 3rd Strike over ggpo, and as your frame rate drops you will start to chop and lag both yourself and the person you're playing against. In order to play 3rd Strike over ggpo you need a system far and above what is needed to play 3rd Strike offline.

Um, did anybody even read this post? It has alot of good information; Page knows what he's talking about, so listen to him!!

While everybody's on the ggpo hype train, does anybody even know how GGPO works, at least on a broad scale? From what I understand (if I'm right), it works on roll-back technology, meaning, when there is inconsistent connection, the state of the game loop on the systems of both players (kinda like Prince of Persia) rolls back to a slightly earlier time state to regain consistency. In other words, (if I'm right) the game literally goes back in time for a few unnoticable frames when connection falters.

What does that mean (if I'm right)?

That means that your xbox/ps3/whatever has to store(buffer) in memory and redraw several frames worth of graphical data/lighting effects/physics calculations/etc; something that the system themselves, as well as the games created for it, were NOT designed to do. With 2d and older games, this is not much of a problem, but with the latest 3d games, which are designed to push the system hardware to feesible limits in order for you to drool at its pretty lighting effects, there is simply too much graphical/mathematical/other data for ggpo to be properly implemented. Not that implementing ggpo is a 'bad' idea per se, but it's simply not possible without designing the game to do so from before even starting development (and rationalizing what graphical/lighting/physics/special effects to sacrifice to do so). Even then, I sincerely doubt it can be implemented as well as these ROM games on the net (again, might be wrong though).

What about games that use it now? Take a look at how graphically intense the Final Fight remake is (read:not very). Even the new DBZ arcade game in Japan that uses ggpo is graphically sparse compared to other modern (and more traditional) fighters.


Harada has explained this about Tekken (on the avoidingthepuddle podcast with Daishi-san), Ono and S.killian explained this about SF and Marvel; though none of these people went into real detail as to why GGPO is not feasible.

tl;dr? Stop blind support and DO SOME RESEARCH. But hey, at least blind GGPO support is actually a good thing!!
 
I'm all for this. Utah doesn't offer many offline gamers, so online is the only chance I have to play against actually good characters.. I know a lot of you guys want offline focus, and I understand that, but you're not the only ones that will be playing SC5..
 
Black:
1. I don't think you understand how a system works. There's no need to store graphical effects because an engine will render it based on what's happening in the game world.

2. Watching a low rez version of the DBZ game and saying it isn't visually intense is odd. Also conveniently ignores that game is 4P, the insane number of projectiles all being tracked, state of the destructible environment, etc.

3. All good netcode is going to use some measure of resources to work. What this petition is saying is close to that fact that GOOD NETCODE IS IMPORANT. More than which good netcode to use, make sure it is good. This isn't my petition but I'm certainly in favor of it. Good code of any kind requires resources, more people will play SC5 online than off, that's the reality of the situation. If those online people are ever to migrate offline, you need a means for them to. That begins with very robust netcode - no matter who makes it.

4. Harada never said GGPO couldn't work with Tekken. Harada is also not a netcode programmer.

5. Ono's SF4 and MvC3 use a very similar process to GGPO. It is no coincidence that SSF2 HD was out first using GGPO. Ono is also not a netcode programmer.

I know recent trending of game producers as semi-celebrities might make them attractive to quote (especially when nobody is going to re-listen to podcasts to verify your claims), a producer isn't a programmer or an expert on much of anything (when you get down to it), they are the person who makes everything happen in a game's development cycle. Generally they know their product inside-and-out; but something like the finer details of netcode... it would be an odd fetish for any producer to be an expert on this topic.

There's no reason to be against it given what people say about SC4's netcode... aside from just raw trolling. In which case, you got me to write an essay for a troll attempt; good job.
 
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