Mass Effect II

[feeqmatic]

1. There are stats to different armor sets. Weapons you upgrade to add stats.

2. No, in ME you couldn't change squad on a mission. Nor could you do it in "every other BioWare game" Dragon age is an easy example here.

3. What? They removed useless skills? Oh no! Really- did you LIKE wasting points into pistols, just so that you could learn a second weapon skill and level that one up? Did you LIKE how there were two skill slots for renegade and paragon? They didn't dumb down skills in this game, they just took out the abilities that shouldn't have been there in the first place, ESPECIALLY when talking amps/bios. And once you unlock training, you can teach shepard all sorts of new skills. IE: Reave, Warp Ammo... Which puts your ability amount right back up there. Only this time, you're not burdened with all your weapon and armor training. Sure, it's streamlined, but I'm not opposed to that when it comes to ME1s skills.

4. I'm glad there's no looting in this game, too. When in ME1 every single enemy dropped something and the inventory was a pain in the ass to navigate. Besides, the variety of gear in ME1 was pretty streamlined anyway. You had around 5 different armor sets, all with levels. All you really wanted to do was wear the highest level of your armor set that you could find, and sell everything else, constantly picking up downgrades all the while. I don't see the entertainment in that.

5. There's plenty of depth in the research terminal. The problem is, you likely don't want to go out and search random planets for minerals in order to get them. That's fine, but don't complain about wanting customization when you're just too lazy to spend the time to do it.

Sorry, but I find it a baseless argument when people say the RPG elements have been removed simply because they don't pick up pieces upon pieces of duplicated equipment to navigate a frustrating inventory screen and "micromanage" gear.

Before I respond I just want to reiterate that I am enjoying the game, playing it as much as possible between tekken and life, I just found it dissapointing that the mutilated the RPG elements of the game

1. The weapons have no stats. Yes there are stats attatched characters and upgrades, but if you look at arbitrary assault rifle A you cant see anything that tells you how powerful it is. Thats just a stupid omission in game design. Fallout, Borderlands, and plenty of other actionesque rpgs managed to do it, i dont know how that isnt in the game.

2. I didnt mean change the squad mid battle, I mean change the character you use in battle. In KOTOR, Dragon Age, and even the crappy Jade empire, you could switch control between your party. I dont remember if it was in ME1, but I still miss it regardless. the AI is effective enough that it isnt awful, but what is my reason for building up other characters if i cant use them?

3. I didnt find the skills useless, I found it what RPG is supposed to be, building your character into what you want to playwith. Now there is little difference between characters except for basic levels. The extra "skill" you can learn is cool except you can only use 1, again limiting my motivation for investing in my teamates.

4. I dont mind the looting being gone, but I do wish there was a greater variety of equipment looting doesnt solve that but its just part of the evidence that the RPG part of this game is pretty much gone.

5. Its not that Im too lazy to do the customization, its that the customization doesnt seem to be any type of reward, its just there to exist as a RPG element, I dont see the point of customizing when the reward seems artificial and arbitrary. What is my my reward for adding equipment and collecting money if there is nothing useful to spend it on. Enemies level regardless, bosses are piss easy, and my weapons only seem to differ between sniper, shotgun and everything else. I hardly ever use any of my powers and I am 3 qaurters through the game and I just started buying upgrades and I have died maybe 3 times. The game is still fun, but as an RPG it is shallow and weak. I wanted an action RPG, not a shooter with RPG elements, its basically gears of war in shiny suits with lasers

 

[KowtowRobinson]

LOL Landslide called it "Gears of the Old Republic" the other night. Laughed my ass off and went "yeah pretty much" but it's still awesome. And no, you couldn't switch to control other party members in ME1 either, you play as Shepard, and you'll probably play as Shepard in ME3 as well.

Players who enjoyed micromanaging all that inventory from the first game are squarely in the minority. This is an all around better game with a lot of the extra shit stripped out to focus on what really matters, the story and character interactions, and actually playing the damn game. Fallout 3 is a good example, I wound up liking the game a lot anyway, but hated lugging around a bunch of useless shit to salvage/sell/repair etc. I couldn't be more pleased with Bioware for streamlining the whole experience the way they have.

 

[Destinizish]

Before I respond I just want to reiterate that I am enjoying the game, playing it as much as possible between tekken and life, I just found it dissapointing that the mutilated the RPG elements of the game

1. The weapons have no stats. Yes there are stats attatched characters and upgrades, but if you look at arbitrary assault rifle A you cant see anything that tells you how powerful it is. Thats just a stupid omission in game design. Fallout, Borderlands, and plenty of other actionesque rpgs managed to do it, i dont know how that isnt in the game.

2. I didnt mean change the squad mid battle, I mean change the character you use in battle. In KOTOR, Dragon Age, and even the crappy Jade empire, you could switch control between your party. I dont remember if it was in ME1, but I still miss it regardless. the AI is effective enough that it isnt awful, but what is my reason for building up other characters if i cant use them?

3. I didnt find the skills useless, I found it what RPG is supposed to be, building your character into what you want to playwith. Now there is little difference between characters except for basic levels. The extra "skill" you can learn is cool except you can only use 1, again limiting my motivation for investing in my teamates.

4. I dont mind the looting being gone, but I do wish there was a greater variety of equipment looting doesnt solve that but its just part of the evidence that the RPG part of this game is pretty much gone.

5. Its not that Im too lazy to do the customization, its that the customization doesnt seem to be any type of reward, its just there to exist as a RPG element, I dont see the point of customizing when the reward seems artificial and arbitrary. What is my my reward for adding equipment and collecting money if there is nothing useful to spend it on. Enemies level regardless, bosses are piss easy, and my weapons only seem to differ between sniper, shotgun and everything else. I hardly ever use any of my powers and I am 3 qaurters through the game and I just started buying upgrades and I have died maybe 3 times. The game is still fun, but as an RPG it is shallow and weak. I wanted an action RPG, not a shooter with RPG elements, its basically gears of war in shiny suits with lasers

I didn't say you didn't enjoy it, I was just marking that I find it silly when people say the RPG has been mutilated.

1. Instead of adding stats, they went with the better element for shooter fights. Each gun handles differently in some way. You have a shotgun, then the next shotgun you gets has rapid fire. While there's no stat boost, you certainly should be noticing a difference. With pistols, you get some that have less ammo, but higher power vs more ammo but less damage. Sure, there's no stats, but these do determine how you want to play.

2. In that case, no, ME didn't have it. And I wouldn't want it to, to be honest. A shooter is much different from something like DA, KotOR or Jade Empire. You're using cover, and positioning. Last thing I would want is to switch to a different teammate, then have shepard pop his head out and get blasted to hell.

3. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but honestly, I can't see how anyone found gun skills fun. Especially when the guns in ME1 all pretty much acted the same, and there were guns that were just clearly better. So rather than build up pistols, you'd put 3 in pistols then take the other gun up, because eventually pistols just didn't cut it.

4. I think you're just completely ignoring shops and research, which is evidenced by your #5. There's plenty of gear in this game to put shepard in, you just have to research it. They all have different stats, bonuses and looks. The difference is, they took out the ME1 idea of "hey, lets have about 10 armor sets, and just add a 'level X' modifier at the end to give the appearance of gear selection!" In this game, you have about the same amount of looks aesthetically. You just don't have that bullshit level modifier.

5. Enemies level with your level, not your upgrades. Eventually you'll need these, and you'll eventually come to find that research is where you'll find your customization.

And honestly, if you find a story as decent or any kind of party interaction like ME2s in "a simple dumb but adequate shooter" I'd be surprised. Let's not forget what an RPG is. You're supposed to take the role of a character you create. Maybe we're missing some arbitrary element some other developer added in later, but you still are making all the choices for your character, choosing his background, whether he's an asshole who happens to be in a spot to save humanity or not. You're still taking a role, and playing through it. Whether or not it has a bunch of elements that other "RPG" developers decided that the genre needed isn't really too important to me.

 

[feeqmatic]

I didn't say you didn't enjoy it, I was just marking that I find it silly when people say the RPG has been mutilated.

1. Instead of adding stats, they went with the better element for shooter fights. Each gun handles differently in some way. You have a shotgun, then the next shotgun you gets has rapid fire. While there's no stat boost, you certainly should be noticing a difference. With pistols, you get some that have less ammo, but higher power vs more ammo but less damage. Sure, there's no stats, but these do determine how you want to play.

2. In that case, no, ME didn't have it. And I wouldn't want it to, to be honest. A shooter is much different from something like DA, KotOR or Jade Empire. You're using cover, and positioning. Last thing I would want is to switch to a different teammate, then have shepard pop his head out and get blasted to hell.

3. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but honestly, I can't see how anyone found gun skills fun. Especially when the guns in ME1 all pretty much acted the same, and there were guns that were just clearly better. So rather than build up pistols, you'd put 3 in pistols then take the other gun up, because eventually pistols just didn't cut it.

4. I think you're just completely ignoring shops and research, which is evidenced by your #5. There's plenty of gear in this game to put shepard in, you just have to research it. They all have different stats, bonuses and looks. The difference is, they took out the ME1 idea of "hey, lets have about 10 armor sets, and just add a 'level X' modifier at the end to give the appearance of gear selection!" In this game, you have about the same amount of looks aesthetically. You just don't have that bullshit level modifier.

5. Enemies level with your level, not your upgrades. Eventually you'll need these, and you'll eventually come to find that research is where you'll find your customization.

And honestly, if you find a story as decent or any kind of party interaction like ME2s in "a simple dumb but adequate shooter" I'd be surprised. Let's not forget what an RPG is. You're supposed to take the role of a character you create. Maybe we're missing some arbitrary element some other developer added in later, but you still are making all the choices for your character, choosing his background, whether he's an asshole who happens to be in a spot to save humanity or not. You're still taking a role, and playing through it. Whether or not it has a bunch of elements that other "RPG" developers decided that the genre needed isn't really too important to me.

I think the biggest issue is taht I just put down dragon age after running through it 3 times and loving it. ME1 is possibly in my top 5 alltime pure games list (i dont count sports and fighters). I just had incredibly high hopes for the game after Dragon age. I definately recognize that streamlining the inventory, looting, etc was needed, but I still feel like they went a bit too far in the RPG elements.

I know im ignoring research and upgrades, that is the proof to my point that they are essentially meaningless surface level elements. I remember the first time I got the best pistol in ME1 for my Adept after building my skill up in that rank and how satisfying it was to throw a singularity out and then shred foes apart. It made a huge difference from all of the weak pistols i had to survive with up til that point.

When I got the third Sniper rifle this time around for my infiltrator I hardly blinked as it was just like my original one i started with with 2 more shells, no extra zoom (not that i would ever need it) or anything.

I remember having sidequests that were a lot more creative and had several levels of action, and activity. Where my descisions would affect my reward or something else later in the game, where sidequest were important for me to level up to gain points to get my pistols or whatever up. I remember having boss fights and battles that required me to use STRATEGY or get lit up. I remember the battle with the krogan crew when i first picked liara up that i had to play through several times before getting through.

I have finished all of the "loyalty" quests besides leigon, and Im on the way to pick him up and again, no memorable bosses, few upgrades, etc. Loving the game, but i doubt I will bother on a second playthrough.

 

[The Landslide]

Am I the only one that thought, for an RPG, ME1 had one of the most lifeless game environments ever? I mean, its story and character interactions were incredible, but I never really felt like I was a part of anything the MOMENT I left the Citadel. It felt like a whole big empty universe full of stock robots for me to murder and a story I figured out halfway through. I loved the characters, but it just felt like an underwhelming experience, also because the gameplay couldn't commit to either being a shooter (which would be ok) or a 3rd person action RPG (which would be awesome).

The other day I finally played Gears of the Old Republic (ME2) and I'd say its actually a good game. The universe feels inhabited, it still has the same amazing writing of the first, and there are a few different enemies to fight. But the best part is that now I know that its a shooter, so I play it like one. I don't have to pretend that it is this kind of pseudo-rpg-mutant that I never truly understood. It shows that Bioware can make good RPGs (Dragon Age) and good action games (Gears of the Old Republic). The combat in the first ME confused me because I never knew how to approach it (Am I playing this right? Should I be planning more? Should I be shooting more?).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say its that I have more fun playing "Shoot the Aliens" and not "Space Action Hero Barbie" with a fucking inventory screen.