Mass Effect 3!

[Age_of_Truth]

Well I went through the thread and saw Destinizish explained the issues pretty well here:

Spoiler

1.)Possibly the most major reason - it's ridiculously brief. Bioware has built a really rich universe, other games take about 50 hours to complete with DLC included - you've made tons of choices through those games that Bioware has repeatedly said will matter.

And then they didn't deliver. Instead you're given an ending that lasts about 10 minutes if you include the entire part starting from the laser. Even that's hard to include as no matter what you do during that sequence (which is pretty much Shep limping through a railway) the final choice comes down to 3 options. All of which end in VERY similar cinematics that gives no epilogue or followup - all you know is what happened to shep.

2.) What the fuck is happening factor. The end of the game seems like an afterthought in which very little makes sense or is developed. Not only do they introduce new characters, they introduce entirely new concepts in the last minute of the game. Not only that but there are plot holes all over and they're absolutely crazy:

How did Anderson - who not only charged the conduit AFTER you, but is also significantly older than you - reach the control room faster? Where in the fuck did the Illusive man come from? He just walks in with no explanation. What in the actual fuck is the catalyst? An AI? A VI? Harbinger? God? He simply says "he" came up with the whole system as "his" solution. Why does he take the form of the child? Was the child real? etc. And not only that, what kind of solution is: "Hey you guys are eventually going to make synthetics that can kill all of you organics. So instead, I made some super advanced synthetics to kill you all so that you wouldn't make synthetics to kill you all. What?

3.) There is no epilogue, and the game REALLY DESPERATELY needs one. In every ending, you destroy all the mass relays. In the arrival, it's revealed that the destruction of a mass relay results in an ENTIRE SYSTEM being destroyed. So not only did you completely fuck everyone no matter what you picked (presumably) even if you didn't you fucked space travel forever, and I doubt all those ships have the supplies to get somewhere without the relays. So you screwed everyone over anyway? Because if you didn't, you should be told that you didn't.

What the fuck, normandy? Did all my allies just flee the fight for Earth? All those guys that all were saying they had wanted to STAY at earth the entire game... They just abandoned the final fight? I'm supposed to believe that?

4.) What happened to all the themes the ME series was building up to an ending for? Free will/the meaning of life? Synthetics vs organics? Unity? Where the hell did all of that go? You're pretty much told - unity can never happen, you're retarded, go kill yourself Shepard. I just spent an entire game and ended up getting EVERY RACE INCLUDING THE GETH to unite for a common cause. And I'm told that that can never happen. What.

So yeah, the complaints are pretty valid.

Spoiler

Nope, even this doesn't make sense. VI on Thessia says that Shep is free of indoctrination. And if for some reason that were to mean he was only free AT THAT POINT and not that he wasn't in the process, then we come to the ending and that means that there was only one correct choice: destroy the reapers. And not only that, it means that Bioware still hasn't provided an ending, as all you've done is pass the indoctrination test, or something.

And I think...

Spoiler

I disagree with 2, 3 and 4, because I think the ending actually addressed these issues really well, but I can see if you take it as a simple conversation, and not as a final desperate attempt to indoctrinate you, then I get how it would seem really pointless and like a cheap way to end the game.

[SERIOUS SPOILER!!!] And the last bit about the VI... well I think that they did give an ending, because even though the final scenes are 'like' a dream, I think that the choices Shepard is given are genuine. I imagined she / he's in a semi-concious state and is trying to understand what the Crucible is and how it works. I don't know whether the Citadel is a Reaper or if the Star Child AI is some other kind of being trying to preserve order in the galaxy like it says it is. But I think that Shepard is genuinely in a position to 'control' the reapers (or perhaps they would control her / him) or to wipe out sentient machine life. So I don't think Shepard wakes up still in the battle in London, I think she wakes up after the battle is over and the Reapers are destroyed.

But the point being that the proximity of previous influential people to the Reapers (Saren, TheIllusiveMan etc.) eventually caused them to be indoctrinated. And it could also indoctrinate Shepard, and this final choice is the final test to see if Shepard can be the first to overcome indoctrination and end the Reaper threat.

But it's just what I thought when I was playing. It's an RPG game so your story isn't my story. So you can just as easily interpret that the AI is genuine and the consequences are how the Star Kid suggests.

About point 1, well yeah, Destinizish is definitely right. All choices, even massive choices like choosing whether or not to commit massive genocide on races such as the Geth, Krogan, Rachni etc. etc. have no effect on the endings you choose. All that follows is left up to your imagination, and that's not really what Bioware implied with all their pre-release spiel.

The only thing I can say in Bioware's defense on this one is that Mass Effect is now an absolutely massive franchise. Making games is pretty huge business, and once you have a brand this big, it would be borderline crazy to sabotage it. And the fact is, if your Shepard's actions made a galactic future wildly different to that of another player, Bioware would make it incredibly difficult for themselves to produce any material for that future, especially the near future.

It's a shame to end on a note about business though, because I really do think the idea of a climactic choice like this was an ingenious way for the game to end.

 

[Ghengis_John]

So, yeah, I really don't get the massive backlash Bioware suffered as a consequence of the ending. For me it was one of the best endings ever. If anyone wants to explain why it was bad, please do.

Did you play through the previous titles Age? I find a lot more people who've only played Mass Effect 3 are fine with the ending. If that's not the case though I'd only say, you didn't see the ending as it originally was, you saw the do-over. Picture if you will, Joker suddenly abandoning Shepard, dead team mates appearing at the ending of the game and a future that looked like certain doom for the universe. We were left with a million questions and when it was all over a screen popped up that said "Hey gj guys, now go buy some DLC!".

"It ended at the same place" It really didn't. You have to remember there was no epilogue like you saw before. It didn't end at the same place. And even if you can say "star grandpa comes along and talks to star-kid" The details of the destination are different, and the ultimate destination isn't even the "go buy some DLC" screen anymore.

How can you say that you experienced something different than we did and think you have any right to judge us? Even if you watch the original ending now, you have ruined the blow to yourself forever. You have the benefit of the new extension in your memory. You can never really know what the original was like, you didn't experience it, you didn't live through it, it was never the only reality there was for you. To get melodramatic for the sake of a simile it's like the difference between being a kid that lives through a genocide and being the kid that reads about the genocide.

I can only ask you to imagine it. "One of the best endings ever?" That's cool, it's not the same ending we got though. All three of our endings basically looked like "You lose." and the kid didn't explain anything. We chose our endings completely blind, we were blind to what would happen before we chose and blind to what the consequences were after we chose and all star-child would say when we asked for objections was "NO!", in the tone of a pet owner stopping his dog from crapping on the rug. Now on top of that imagine this: Imagine you were sucker-punched by the ending as I have described it. There's a difference between getting to brace yourself and not getting to brace yourself.

People just bitch about everything. People are already bitching about RE6 (which looks omfg god as shit!) And DoA5 and they aren't. Even out yet!

Case in point. Please take your angst about apples out of the oranges thread, it's unconstructive, but I guess it takes less thought to hurl an insult than it does to explain why you might disagree. If you have something to actually say instead of doing some bitching of your own, then say it. Otherwise, go rage in the RE6 and DOA5 threads where it might actually do some good.

The worst thing is, I agree with you about the people tearing down games that haven't come out yet. However we were talking about a game that was released , a game we bought, a game we played through and a game that we finished. That is not the same as criticizing a game you have not even played yet.

I honestly thought it was too much of a deus ex machina at first, but I finally embraced it and actually appreciate the ending now.

Which one? Was that AFTER the extended cut or before?

As for me, even after the DLC I found it pretty unsatisfactory. The star-kid's claim that organics and synthetics can't make peace for themselves is at the core of my objection. It places so little faith in the races of the galaxy, and makes everything the player has done up until now seem invalid. There is absolutely no way to refute what the arrogant little bastard could see if he'd just take one look up. I still hate that we get nothing in the way of info if Shepard lives. It's still just half a breath and nothing more so in that respect, nothing changed. The series has always been about THE MAN. Casey Hudson himself even said in interviews about Dragon Age that Mass effect was Shepard's story, about Shepard the individual. And then in the end it becomes about THE UNIVERSE. I think that is the most personal narrative betrayal.

 

[LP]

Dude, seriously, get over yourself. I've said what I had to say on this topic. You want to read something constructive, go back and read what I had to say on the matter. On top of that, who are you supposed to be? I don't have to write a dissertation explaining myself to you. The game's over who knows how many months old so, if you want to hear some argument you haven't heard before, go Google that shit because you're not going to find it here.

 

[Ghengis_John]

Dude, seriously, get over yourself. I've said what I had to say on this topic. You want to read something constructive, go back and read what I had to say on the matter. On top of that, who are you supposed to be? I don't have to write a dissertation explaining myself to you. The game's over who knows how many months old so, if you want to hear some argument you haven't heard before, go Google that shit because you're not going to find it here.

LP, normally I like you so I'm gonna drop this here.

 

[LP]

LP, normally I like you so I'm gonna drop this here.

I didn't say I don't like you but the way that sounded rubbed me the wrong way and I just said what was on my mind. I'm not here to get into any huge debates on this game. I've already said my thoughts (I love it) and there's really nothing more to say on the matter of it. AoT said he didn't understand why people didn't like stuff and I gave my opinion on the matter (which is not at all ME3-exclusive).

One thing you should know is that I only tend to get into arguments based around logic. I often feel like people want to argue with me for not sharing the same tastes they do here (and on the Internet in general) though.