If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out...

[Felix007]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Wow this thread is totally serious. Thread title had me fooled lol. I completely beleive in God. If everything is just randomly here by coincidence then there's no point in doing anything, because it doesn't matter. I would certainly find it hard to care about my life, other than just enjoying myself as much as possible before i cease to exist?
I also think that its hard to understand free will with an all knowing God (just because he knows whats going to happen doesnt mean it was forced on you?), but its even harder to understand it without God. Surely your reaction to any given situation is purley based on your genetic dispositions and you enviormental stimuli up to that point if you have no soul and are just some coincidence of chemistry. It could probably be boiled down to a science of a million little causes for each effect.

Free will being incompatible with omniscience is hard to wrap your head around. Imagine that I was omniscient, and I gave you the choice between two arbitrary objects, A and B. Now, if I know beforehand that your choice will be A, do you still retain the option to choose B? No, for if you did, you would be going against my omniscience, and I would no longer retain that quality.

You can even back it up further. To get to that point in time, I have to control every aspect of existence. I must ensure that every part of your life eventually includes you coming to me so that I can present you the options A and B. To do even this, I would have to ensure first that you are born.

That requires that I control every thought and twist of fate that influenced every ancestor and those around you. Every unrequited love, every fiancee killed in battle, every child born of rape, every arranged marriage, all planned to lead to these individuals to influencing you in some way that would lead to this moment in time. Based on this, omniscience and free will seem to butt heads with fervor.

Lack of belief in a God does not lead to nihilism. We give meaning to our own individual existence. I think it's a much grander idea than spending my entire life auditioning for the next.

Credit to DJ on the wording.

 

[KoshTheKoala]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

I think you're taking what I said too seriously. I don't believe that God creates lightning or any of the stupid shit the Bible says that defies all logic, which is a large amount of it. In fact, sometimes I seriously doubt God's existence as well, but I'm not gonna convert to atheism.

You don't convert from theism to atheism. You're already an atheist for the other 11ty billion gods out there, you just believe in 1 more god than the other atheists.

And about me not knowing what truly caused the creation of time, you're right. We'll probably never know what happened and will be restricted to theories, and one possibility, which many others believe in, is that it's God's (or some higher force's) work. That's pretty much the only theory most people can think of at the moment. Even if it sounds ridiculous, it's possible. Again, it's just my opinion.

No it's actually not the only theory people have thought of. I seem to recall universes giving birth to other universes in black holes as one theory... also membranes hitting each other causing big bangs as another.

The scientific community that you speak of, most of them believe in God as well. They, like me, just don't take the Bible as fact. They're not all atheists like you just because they believe in scientific concepts.

No, they don't. They took a survey in both the USA and England, and it shows an overwhelmingly large number are atheist and only a small number believe in some sort of god(s).

Let's just limit this to our personal opinions on the matter. I say this to everyone. Opinions. Because I've found that a lot of people don't know what that word means.

Why would you limit a discussion to opinions when facts exist and are so much better?


This deserves to be quoted as awesome:

If you're not willing to debate your opinion on the matter, why bother posting at all? You refine and expand your ideas by having a discourse with others. You gain nothing by typing your thoughts on the matter and getting upset when someone challenges those ideas.

I just believe that it's nice to think of an all powerful being that is watching you, because it sets a guideline on how to live your life. Want to go to heaven? (which may or may not exist) Be good. (sounds nice right? Cool, i'll be the best person i can.) Want to go to a place of eternal suffering and torment? (which may or may not exist). Errm No thanks (Okay, so i won't be bad.)

Pretty easy to live a good life when you're scared of being tormented and tortured right?

I'm glad you wrote this!

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-Napoleon Bonaparte

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."
-Napoleon Bonaparte

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

I'm not a physicist, so of course, I won't be able to fully understand how time can exist without a previous force besides itself triggering it, but I suppose if I look into it, I'll understand it more. Thank you for explaining it.

You're limiting yourself to a single universe of thought. With a multi-verse theory, time can be "born" in one universe, but not in another. Time isn't universal at all, it's not a constant. We know from relativity that moving fast slows time in the perspective of a relatively neutral frame of reference... that's just a fact of the universe that has been proven. You take two people, send one at 0.99C for 50 years (in the relatively motionless frame of reference, compared to the speed of light at least), and when he comes back, he'll be significantly younger.

My original point though, was not that God created the big bang, but that simply, God exists. I used the big bang as an example because it seemed to be the strangest of phenomena I could think of. Now that you've explained it, I (sorta) know how God is not involved in this.

Why does god exist? Why does god need to exist? If god didn't create the big bang, god didn't create the matter in the universe, god didn't create the Earth, god didn't seed it with life, god didn't cause evolution, and god hasn't done any miracles attributed to him/her/it, then what does god do? Why does god exist? If god has absolutely no point and doesn't do anything at all besides cause things like 9/11, the Crusades and genocide all over the world, why would you believe he exists? And if he does, is he really worth worshiping?

 

[BlackDragon37]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

People that argue that morality is subjective have to realize that that is an opinion not a fact. If there exists a universal standard of right and wrong, theoretically, an action can be either in accordance to or in violation of the universal law, aka, an objective measure. One possible way for such a universal law to exist is the existence of some God.

The problem with this is that an objective truth has to be mind independent.

Morality isn't mind independent.

 

[crow_winters]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

Woot for controversial thread!

Seriously though, it is rather humble of you to give thanks and recognition to something that isn't very popular to believe in these days. I myself believe in him, just..a very lazy believer..-_-

Uh, it's only "not very popular" depending upon where you are and who you mingle with. This is a very big world, just because those in your immediate city/social structure/whatever don't adhere to it doesn't mean anything.

I try not to believe in invisible monsters because I realize if I were raised in a different part of the world by a different family, I'd believe in a completely different invisible monster.

 

[LKV]

If I had $1 for every time God bailed me out..

The problem with this is that an objective truth has to be mind independent.

Morality isn't mind independent.

i tend to agree with this line of thinking, but if everyone shared at least one moral principle, could this particular principle be considered objective, at least within the domain of humanity?