Hate Speech: When Worlds Collide

[IdleMind]

Snip.

While I generally agree with the substance of your post in theory, your self proclamations of being good only hold weight with yourself; because the metric that is used to determine that in the eyes of your peer is offline tournaments/MM's/Grudge matches and what have you.

If you don't want that, or don't care about that validation, or simply cannot do this, I understand that. To each their own- but the thing is; and this is one issue that this article didn't address, the idea of showing up to prove your worth at the game competitively simply cannot be achieved online due to the nature of the game within that medium. Every player is taking advantage of lag, even when they try their hardest not to. This skews everything.

Don't take this as a personal attack or me saying you suck. It's not that at all- it's that you are making a claim and you or I have no way of proving it one way or the other; and you are using that claim in defense of online.

If you showed up offline and did well with just your online training, I would be forced to give ground to your position and claims.

Again, this is not an attack- this is just something that I think needs to be said.

Also, I take issue with all this "fun" flag flying. This is implying people take the game seriously implies that is "unfun". This also implies that "we need to remember it's just this or that" is somehow a valid position for everyone. This attitude needs to stop.

This kind of "fun" is not superior to mine, nor should it be finger wagged like you are scolding a child ("People seem to forget" is one of my least favorite ways to start a fallacy). This position one raises my ire, but this has been articulated by a smarter, but somewhat more hostile man that me. Pardon the language- I didn't write it (Which is to say, I don't think you are scrubs, but if someone were to take the opposing pole to your viewpoint, it'd look like this:)

Spoiler: Seriousness, Competition and Fun

I know, I know- "But arent these games supposed to be about fun!?" Remember where you first heard that sentiment? When you were on a little-league team that sucked. It was the coachs pre-game "pep talk" to soften the impact of the beating you all knew you were about to take. Of course there is nothing wrong with having fun- my concern is to point out the way in which so many scrubs use the idea of "having fun" as an excuse to never really get any good; to hide their inability to really play. They can pretend to laugh off their losses because they were "just having fun". So why bother? Its another of those cheap devices for soothing their own damaged egos. Not only will these guys will not only never be real competitors (they like to take a "moral high-ground" on this one, claiming: "Well if that's what it takes, then I don't want to win! Ill never give up having fun!"), but they actually miss out on the best kind of reward these games have to offer.

Theres something deeply satisfying about seeing these games played truly well. It has a kind of beauty all its own. A well-played match has a flow like nothing else- that youll never see just screwing around, no matter how big the combos, or how wacky the tactics.

"Fun" is used not only as an excuse for lazy slop play, its also (of course) used against certain tactics. Usually those same tactics that make you work to get around them. This is a new kind of sadness all its own, as in the vast majority of cases, counter tactics exist. Finding these, and the back and forth of complex tactics is one of the greatest pleasures these games offer. But no- we should give that up for the "fun" of being able to slap our buttons the same ways we used to.

Finally, the idea that you cant win and have fun at the same time needs to be exposed as the mysterious scrub propaganda that it is. There are a lot of aspects to "fun", not least of which is the special joy of winning a serious competition. Look at the faces of everyone in the Olympics (the ones that aren't already sitting on fat million dollar "I don't have to care what happens" contracts, anyway)- is anyone having fun? You ever see anything other than those scary "for the judges" smiles? No. The only time you see these hardcore competitors really smile is following... what? A dominating performance. One where they know they've just done exactly what they needed to do- for themselves, team, country.

Fortunately, FG tournaments (and FG's generally) have a lot more opportunities for fun than this. Most every top player I know has a ton of fun playing these games- and unquestionably more than the losing, button slapping scrubs who console themselves by thinking the winner must have "given up his humanity" or some nonsense to get that good.

In fact, groups of top players have more fun playing these games, hanging out with each other, than any other group Ive ever seen playing, and I've seen a lot. The idea that fun can't go together with winning isnt just confused, its exactly wrong. These guys are playing the game better, more satisfyingly, seeing more in it, and getting to beat everyone down at the same time. Fun.

 

[kikoshoo]

I'm not sure why we're still talking about this. The difference is pretty obvious. So it always comes down to persoal reasons. I play online because it's fun and easy. I sit in my chair/bed, lay back, turn on that xbox and boom. Anytime, any day. Offline you have to set a time to meet, make a bunch of calls/messages or go to arcade. You may not be able to do that at 12 midnight. Not saying I won't do it, just can't do it as often. And I wanna play often.

 

[Tha_Shogun]

I'll agree with Hates, Offline no doubt is greater than Online.To me, it's playability is better, it's more fun, the timing is pin point, and I do not have to worry about "Connecting" after each round.

The thing that gets me is when people say things like "it will NEVER work" (Notice the emphasis on NEVER, something will always work in this game on someone) or "your just an online player only, you would have no chance offline" bs that I was hearing when I first started trying to step to the offline scene. I learned alot of things from online play, and though it never gives you the full effect of the game (in my opinion) you can still learn some things from it (like certain scenerios from characters you've never seen with limited people around you)

I can honestly say I would not have one my first offline tourney without the things I learned from alot of online play, but offline is stuff better. I missed the smell of sweaty gamer sweat in the afternoon.

 

[GrendelsWish]

Worlds Collide?
Boyfriend George world CANNOT meet Friend George World!!

 

[Nemesis-Kanden]

Do you know what you gain from forming strategies based around online play in SC4? Delusion.

This is a virtual breeding ground for scrubs and it should never, never be taken seriously. But here’s the thing. It’s a competitive fighting game. So why even start playing online? Why do it to yourself? Nothing is gained. The lag in SC4 is so terrible that the game doesn’t even resemble itself any more. The classy “rules” are subject to bias to whoever is loud and obnoxious enough to enforce them. This makes people play the role of deputy. They exclaim how you SHOULD play, what moves AREN’T allowed. Can you imagine what kind of complex this creates in a game where the aim is to crush your opponent through exploitation?

I won’t say this isn’t true, but the price you pay for this “experience” comes at the cost of frustration. What you gain is a dim vision of what might be possible and it is immediately offset by anyone who has good reaction time offline.

But it is SUCH A TEASE when want you want to really put your skills to the test. Sorry, you can’t do 80% of your movelist.

I can't remember the last time I agreed so much with someone on this site. These points right here put into words what I was feeling when I quit sc4 online months ago.

The one part of this that I don't quite agree with is the 80% statement. For me it was more like I felt like I couldn't ulitize my characters tools in ways that were deemed "cheap".

Examples: No using NM 1a charged/uncharged mixup games
No playing with single b mind games with lizardman online
Hesitating to use stuff that works offline (?) but is hard to deal with online because of lag. (not impossible, but way harder)

Trying to play seriously online I think is some kind of paradox or contradiction...because unless you live in a certain country you can't.

As far as this game goes anyway.