Hate Speech Theory Fighter University: Tiers

[Sp1d3r]

You do know that the player who plays first has an advancment?
Now let me tell you that the player who plays 2nd has a mathematical algorithm that gives him 100% a draw match...
yea nice balance.

now on topic:

I just wanted to thank you for telling me what's up.

 

[ShadowCollector]

I just wanted to thank you for telling me what's up.

I personally prefer Centipedes over Spiders.

 

[JAGTHEGEMINI]

lol! "Unlearn mishima stile, pwn everyone with JFLS"...

Made my day!

 

[d3v]

A story for you- I have beaten a tournament level Amy with Rock, offline in a tournament setting. I switched to Rock because I felt the matchup was better for 2 reasons

1) Amy specific combos, and a good read on the players habits to exploit his ducking with 2B+G into those Amy specific combos

2) Character ignorance. I figured he wouldn't know how to punish or stop me because you hardly ever see or prepare for Rock in tournament.

Character ignorance is something Tier Martyrs like to gloss over- because the fact is when people know the match-ups against low tiers in SC4, you are probably going to lose.

Even Omega himself says this about Zas and his matches. Omega is a far far superior player to most; in the top class... but Zas isn't a character even near the top class. The difference in his matches at EVO 09 when nobody knew the match-up, and at DEV were telling- because some people DID know the match-up.

At the end of the day, identifying character ignorance and using it is one of the most powerful reasons to use a low tier. The thing is, like the low tiers themselves, it's a gimmick and ought not to be relied on if you are serious about competing in the game.

Still a good trick to have in mind just as long as you do know the match-up. Nothing wrong with having a pocket *insert character here* ready to use as a a counter-pick.

I think that is pretty much a different subject. I was arguing that being a low-tier hero makes you a more well rounded player overall. Learning a character with a unique style is different from that, with it's own set of obstacles. (though I'd also say that often times, you have to have ingenuity to play low tier, which could indirectly help). I wasn't trying the argue that playing lowtier will help you specifically learn higher tier characters with unique attributes -- i.e. Being a master Mina player won't necessarily make you a master Voldo player, but it WILL help you be a master Soul Calibur 4 player

It's the same with unique character matchups too. That's a case-by-case basis.

But the things I'm talking about with low-tier using is using fundamental knowledge to your fullest advantages - blocking properly, punishing properly, using frames, using system attributes to your advantage, such as life bar, game clock, stun bar/guard break/soul gauge, using psychological tools to gain upper hand, etc. Those can be learned when using higher tier characters, but when using low-tiers, it tends to become a requirement, therefore you are more subjected to learning/using these tools. For example, alot of Ivy users I see below the highest level use her pretty well and are pretty scary enough. But they don't even use things like her good soul gauge game. Why? Because they don't need it; and they don't bother to learn it because of that. But what if they did? Their overall game would become that much scarier/stronger

I still say it's on a game-per-game basis. While this may be true for Soul Cal, it might not be true for others. For example, most Guilty Gear players will likely tell you not to do this since you'll end up learning stuff not applicable to other characters. And playing low tier in MvC2 simply locks you out from fundamental tools like tri-jumps and fly/unfly cancels.

Now the question is, with how unique the new character's we're seeing come in, what happens if SCV's metagame starts to develop fundamentals unique to a subset of characters (still waiting for true, full screen zoning in a 3D fighter, maybe we'll get something close to it here). Especially since we have 2 characters who have what seem to be true projectile analogues (as per Killian's description of them) that, don't just allow you to hit from afar, but also control space independently of your character

 

[ShadowCollector]

I still say it's on a game-per-game basis. While this may be true for Soul Cal, it might not be true for others. For example, most Guilty Gear players will likely tell you not to do this since you'll end up learning stuff not applicable to other characters. And playing low tier in MvC2 simply locks you out from fundamental tools like tri-jumps and fly/unfly cancels.

Then Why mention other games on a SC forum in which the debate is about SC tiers? I feel this was wasted typing.