Hate Speech Theory Fighter University: Tiers

[ShadowCollector]

Just to slide this in here, the specific derogatory term for low tier heroes who get a superiority complex over playing/winning/losing with low tiers is "Tier Martyr".

I feel like a Tier Martyr when I beat Amy with Rock and I'm proud of it Idle.

That's the thing about purposely picking low-tier: you're NOT doing yourself any favors, and you know it. It's the entire point of it. You're pitting yourself in a disadvantageous situation (learning to deal with bad matchups usually, sometimes with how to defend with overpowered shenanigans as well) to see how you will overcome it. The idea is not much different than lifting weights, and can be just as frustrating, painful, and infuriating (or impossible, like putting too much weight that you can't possibly lift on a rack), but like how your body increases muscle, your mind becomes sharper and less resilient to tactics that others find difficult/impossible to deal with.

Reminds me of PT with the Master Sergeant when I was stationed at Fort Campbell.

All aside, I agree with what you said. I enjoy picking Low tiers and even If I lose I don't necessarily blame the guy who beat me, but my own weakness/reflexes/etc. That being said I agree with the advantages of picking a low tier as it makes you more "Defensive" and forces you to play and think outside the box in match-ups.

I enjoy picking Low tiers in any fighting game (Yoshimitsu/Zafina in tekken 6, Felicia/Chris/Hsien-ko in MvC3, Hakumen/Tager in BBCS2, Sheeva in MK, etc.) and the results of winning feel much more satisfying and gratifying when you win.

 

[IdleMind]

I feel like a Tier Martyr when I beat Amy with Rock and I'm proud of it Idle.

A story for you- I have beaten a tournament level Amy with Rock, offline in a tournament setting. I switched to Rock because I felt the matchup was better for 2 reasons

1) Amy specific combos, and a good read on the players habits to exploit his ducking with 2B+G into those Amy specific combos

2) Character ignorance. I figured he wouldn't know how to punish or stop me because you hardly ever see or prepare for Rock in tournament.

Character ignorance is something Tier Martyrs like to gloss over- because the fact is when people know the match-ups against low tiers in SC4, you are probably going to lose.

Even Omega himself says this about Zas and his matches. Omega is a far far superior player to most; in the top class... but Zas isn't a character even near the top class. The difference in his matches at EVO 09 when nobody knew the match-up, and at DEV were telling- because some people DID know the match-up.

At the end of the day, identifying character ignorance and using it is one of the most powerful reasons to use a low tier. The thing is, like the low tiers themselves, it's a gimmick and ought not to be relied on if you are serious about competing in the game.

 

[ShadowCollector]

At the end of the day, identifying character ignorance and using it is one of the most powerful reasons to use a low tier. The thing is, like the low tiers themselves, it's a gimmick and ought not to be relied on if you are serious about competing in the game.

Thus why I am learning Kilik and a little Lizard at the side. However you must also admit despite ignorance how many people truly wish to learn Rock's In's and Out's?

It should be taken advantage of. And If you are playing a low tier I would say to be Proficient with at least a good 75% of the cast. When I lose to Kilik/Voldo/Siegfried I go to practice pick said characters that beat me and try to learn why they used the moves they did against my character.

Effectively however in a tournament I would theoretically say that everybody there has done there homework to a degree. Omega won with Zas but I don't recall Zas ever being a Low tier. Maybe a Bottom-Mid tier along with Maxi and Raphael but not low tier with Seong and Rock. Mid tiers are much more fun to use in tournaments compared to low tiers anyway.

 

[KingAce]

Low tier also comes with pride...knowing that you're the only one in a room filled with players that can pull off what you're doing has it's own self-fulfillment.

Tiers are really determined by match-ups, and match-ups are determined by tools. So even a balanced game can have bad match-ups depending on how dissimilar the characters are.

Now for theory talk...
Looking at SCV we estimate that Astorath is probably going to be top tier. Consider his damage output and arguably the best CE in the game. He's also much faster. In previous games he had some difficult with rush down characters. Currently with the information out there, he has the best throws in a game where throws are buffed. Also, strongest tech trap game by far.

That said when I look at hilde, and her GC charges. Which give her the ability to shut down the opponents movement. Quick step and back dash in addition to zone out due to her fast charges that give +frames on block. I am open to say Astaroth might have the same exact problems he had against her in SC4. If you remember correctly Hilde's movement and her ability to just step around throws and bullrush was what made that match-up favorable to her. She is faster outside the range of Astaroth's throw game. Her charges will be a problem for other short range rush down characters as well. I have also called her out as one of the few characters that can effectively turtle properly in SCV.

 

[BLACKSTAR]

The problem with this comes when you start playing games with a high level of character uniqueness, to the point where stuff you learn from playing a low tier character doesn't translated into playing better with a higher tiered character.

I think that is pretty much a different subject. I was arguing that being a low-tier hero makes you a more well rounded player overall. Learning a character with a unique style is different from that, with it's own set of obstacles. (though I'd also say that often times, you have to have ingenuity to play low tier, which could indirectly help). I wasn't trying the argue that playing lowtier will help you specifically learn higher tier characters with unique attributes -- i.e. Being a master Mina player won't necessarily make you a master Voldo player, but it WILL help you be a master Soul Calibur 4 player

It's the same with unique character matchups too. That's a case-by-case basis.

But the things I'm talking about with low-tier using is using fundamental knowledge to your fullest advantages - blocking properly, punishing properly, using frames, using system attributes to your advantage, such as life bar, game clock, stun bar/guard break/soul gauge, using psychological tools to gain upper hand, etc. Those can be learned when using higher tier characters, but when using low-tiers, it tends to become a requirement, therefore you are more subjected to learning/using these tools. For example, alot of Ivy users I see below the highest level use her pretty well and are pretty scary enough. But they don't even use things like her good soul gauge game. Why? Because they don't need it; and they don't bother to learn it because of that. But what if they did? Their overall game would become that much scarier/stronger