Hate Speech Theory Fighter University: Tiers

[Juez]

I told this to someone when they mentioned the balance of the game and he was confused about tier list.

Ok I think you're confused on what tier list are, just because a character is top tier it doesn't mean that the character is unbeatable. It means that the character has better tools than other characters. Like comparing Maxi to Ivy, lets say they both play against the same character odds are Ivy has an answer to whatever the other character has, Maxi on the other hand on has so many things he can do. Lets do that for every character on the roster, we figure out that Ivy has an easier time against the majority of the cast so she is put higher up on the tier list. When we try to do the same for Maxi we realize that he has limited tools and has a harder time against a larger portion of the cast so we place him lower on the tier list. Does this mean that Maxi has no way to beat higher tier characters? By no means is this the case.

It doesn't matter if you try to learn how to beat a character because odds are your future opponents aren't just sitting around with their thumbs up their asses. They are learning what your character can do to stop theirs and are adapting.

 

[Synraii]

I have a question as far as the who is better thing. Let's say there is 2 people. Now person A never loses to anyone ever. Except, when he goes up against person B. Person B beats the ever living dog shit out of person A every time. However Person B loses the some of his matches against all these other people that Person A runs through. So, my question is, who is better? Person A or Person B?

The better player is better. =)
Look at it this way, Keev is one of the best players in the world and in SCIV I think I'm right in saying that he has never beaten Malek in tournament play. I wouldn't want to say who is best out of those two, y'know?

 

[d3v]

That's the thing about purposely picking low-tier: you're NOT doing yourself any favors, and you know it. It's the entire point of it. You're pitting yourself in a disadvantageous situation (learning to deal with bad matchups usually, sometimes with how to defend with overpowered shenanigans as well) to see how you will overcome it. The idea is not much different than lifting weights, and can be just as frustrating, painful, and infuriating (or impossible, like putting too much weight that you can't possibly lift on a rack), but like how your body increases muscle, your mind becomes sharper and less resilient to tactics that others find difficult/impossible to deal with.)

The problem with this comes when you start playing games with a high level of character uniqueness, to the point where stuff you learn from playing a low tier character doesn't translated into playing better with a higher tiered character. Matchups change depending on the character and the matchup you learn using one will most likely not apply when you use a higher tiered character come tournament/money match time. This is something to consider since Soul Cal has been borrowing a lot from 2D fighters (which have traditionally had more match-up uniqueness) with V bringing in long distance, space control mechanics for some of its newer characters (and some old ones).

 

[IdleMind]

Just to slide this in here, the specific derogatory term for low tier heroes who get a superiority complex over playing/winning/losing with low tiers is "Tier Martyr".

 

[sillycatsteven]

I never put too much faith into tier list. it's fun debating but, to me, for SC4 at least, tier list is slightly more useful than useless. The thing is that SC4 is very balanced. There are exceptions, but barring those exception (namely Yoda, Rock and Hilde), most characters are approximately equal. This means that a player's skill and reaction are more important than tier. In another word, I would rather spend time practicing than researching and debating whick character to use. Furthermore, I found that some people are more suited to a character. For example, Amy is high tier, but even if I put in the same effort into learning amy as the effort for learning sophie, my sophie would probably be more powerful than my amy. and if I am vsing my brother, my amy would never beat his amy. but my sophie would have a good chance of winning. in fact, my Raph would probably be more powerful than my amy.

also the idea of tier list is very confusing for people who first see it (I was confused by it. I came into contact with the online community due to SC4, but I have SE, SC2 and SC3). that's why there are so many 'myths' associated with it. even now, people still have slightly different ideas about the definition of "tier".