TwistedAsura
The Wanderer
I love how Arya is left handed #left handed fencing FTW.(Raphael is also left handed muahahaha. and Zwei)
Game of Thrones Discussion Thread (Books and Show)
- Thread starter Alexandra
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Alexandra
Fearless Eyes
I love how Arya and Dany don't move their stories along. Let me just wipe the sarcasm and bile off of my face.
Truthfully, I got tired of Arya and her assassin shtick. I could read her A Storm of Swords chapters everyday and not get tired of them. I honestly like her character but I was pretty bored with her story in A Dance with Dragons.
WindupSkeleton
[14] Master
From one of the later books, a nice little thing I noticed:
“Not all,” said Jaime. “Lord Eddard’s daughters live. One has just been wed. The other…” Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? “…if the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark. She’ll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced inkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall.”
I'd like to think that Victarion saying he'll sail the Dothraki sea IS foreshadowing, implying that he'll be 'sailing' it from astride a dragon.
Also, I like how "Weirwood" is phonetically twinned with "Werewood", which would essentially mean "Man-Tree", in the same vein that "Werewolf" means "Man-wolf". But that's more a silly observation than an attempt at anything.
“Not all,” said Jaime. “Lord Eddard’s daughters live. One has just been wed. The other…” Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? “…if the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark. She’ll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced inkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall.”
So obviously Jaime is making reference to Gendry and Hot Pie, but also "She'll forget she was a Stark" could possibly be related to her whole "Faceless Man" arc, and her being told to give up her identity and whatnot? This, of course, would be contrary to when Ned I think) told her that, come Winter, the lone wolf will die, and that Summer was the time for squables, but Winter was the time for coming together and protecting each other. Then there's the fact she's in Braavos, and we have the whole "Titan/Littlefinger" thing going on. So, Arya kills Littlefinger for Sansa's sake? Though I'd like Sansa to end him, personally.
As Jaime says: "If the gods are good" Arya would marry Gendry (yay) or Hot Pie (boo) and blahblahblah, but of course the gods are NEVER good, and typically do the opposite of whatever is mentioned alongside that phrase.
As Jaime says: "If the gods are good" Arya would marry Gendry (yay) or Hot Pie (boo) and blahblahblah, but of course the gods are NEVER good, and typically do the opposite of whatever is mentioned alongside that phrase.
I'd like to think that Victarion saying he'll sail the Dothraki sea IS foreshadowing, implying that he'll be 'sailing' it from astride a dragon.
Also, I like how "Weirwood" is phonetically twinned with "Werewood", which would essentially mean "Man-Tree", in the same vein that "Werewolf" means "Man-wolf". But that's more a silly observation than an attempt at anything.
Alexandra
Fearless Eyes
Victarion is ambitious, but he will fail. I'm expecting the dragons to hear the call of the horn and get enraged by the sound, sending them into a frenzy. I get the feeling some of Victarion's ships will survive the fire and the imminent Battle of Meereen, with Moqorro escaping and meeting Dany at the same time as Archmaester Marwyn. This way she'd be forced to decide between the two: the Seven and Westeros or the Lord of Light and Azor Ahai.
I have something I would like to present to the forum, aside from Victarion. (I apologize for the copy and paste mishap BUT I WAS NOT RETYPING THIS)
Introduction:
First things first I'm not arguing whether or not Aegon is in fact Aegon VI, son of Rhaegar Targaryen, or he's a Blackfyre or he's just some boy from Lys. This is something that I thought could happen and after discovering something in the So Spake Martin section my idea turned into a theory. At the end I will have a bibliography of the outside sources I used. Otherwise most information will be taken from The Citadel here on Westeros.org or the wiki. So first a little background on the subject that I feel is important to the series.
Background on the Titles:
George R.R. Martin originally intended the series to be a trilogy, starting with
A Game of Thrones
with the next two books being titled
A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter
These titles are the three that have remained throughout the series and I believe hold some significance to the story. There seem to be three subplots going on throughout the series; The "game of thrones" going on between the different Houses and Lords, the journey of Daenerys trying to regain her throne, and the threat of The Others.
A Game of Thrones
tells the story of the game of thrones going on, although the other plots are introduced the real focus seems to be Kings Landing.
A Dance with Dragons
focuses on the "dragons" of the story
We can assume with the massing of The Others beyond The Wall and with the ominous title that
The Winds of Winter will focus on The Wall and the coming of The Others.
The Original Dance of the Dragons:
For those who don't know much about the original Dance of the Dragons and would like a more detailed description I would suggest reading the
wiki article.
As for a quick summary King Viserys I had three children by his first wife, from House Arryn. Of those three children only his daughter Rhaenyra survived to adulthood. He became to train her as his heir, in spite of the fact that no female Targaryen had ever sat as ruler upon the Iron Throne. Viserys ended up remarrying and having four more children, however still declared Rhaenyra was his heir in his will. Upon his death the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard Ser Criston Cole, known as "the Kingmaker" declared Viserys' son Aegon II the king going against the will of Viserys I. Rhaenyra with supporter's refuted Aegon II's claim and a bloody civil war was started with the lesser houses of House Targaryen choosing sides along with other Houses in Westeros. Dragon fought dragon, many died. This became known as The Dance of the Dragon. Afterwards Rhaenyra was killed and a line of succession was established putting any female with a claim to the throne behind all males who have any claim.
My Theory and How I Originally Got There:
When I heard about that I realized that Aegon and Dany weren't getting to get along.
The whole time Dany has been set upon sitting upon the Iron Throne. Not simply being the Queen but ruling. We see this in Meeren when she sits in court everyday. Originally Aegon was set on going to meet up with her and winning her hand, but thanks to Tyrion, he is now sitting in Westeros.
Arianne is on the way from Dorne to meet this Aegon. Doran Martell's son was killed by Dany (not directly, but in his mind he may see her dragons as an extension of her). So wouldn't he like to ally Dorne with Aegon by marrying Arianne to Aegon? Jon Connington would most likely urge Aegon to do this as getting Dorne as an ally would be very important.
Dany over in Meeren may not see Aegon as an ally, rather as a usurper. In theory if the Targaryen's had never lost the throne Aegon would have a much stronger claim than Dany would. Any loyal Targaryen Houses will see that as well. We can assume the Iron Born will side with Dany since Victarion is attempting to do that now.
So we will have Aegon and Dorne in Westeros looking to conquer and we know Aegon is not only looking to rule but ready to rule. He has been trained by Septa Lemore, Haldon Half-Maester, and Jon Connington to rule as a king.
And we will have Dany and the Iron Born in Essos waiting to come over to Westeros looking to conquer it and to rule, and as Dany has been "practicing" in Meeren we know she is
ready (easily contested, I know...) to rule as well.
Both want to rule, but there is only one Iron Throne. So who will move over and let the other take it?
In my opinion, neither, and this will result in ANOTHER civil war, however this will take place mainly in the South. Winter has come and with it traveling to the North will be difficult, let alone capturing it. Stannis and the Northman will be stuck there to fight it out and see who survives the winter.
The south has the Lannisters/Baratheons and the Tyrells. Yes there are other Houses but as of right now those are the major players. If the Tyrells saw a chance to survive this and raise their House they may look towards one of the two Targaryens poised to take the land.
If Aegon sides with Dorne that won't be happening, we know Highgarden and Dorne aren't the best of friends so the question would be if they would side with Dany. If Dany isn't married or is willing to practice polygamy then they could marry either Loras or Willas. Barristan would most likely urge Dany to do this, the power of Highgarden would help her in conquering Westeros.
Myrcella is in Dorne, Tommen would be with the Tyrells so the Lannisters would be stuck in the middle with no clear leader (if Cersei is detained or killed) and the two heirs split up. The Baratheons (minor houses that sided with Renly or the Lannisters) may make some move to side with Stannis.
So we will have the southern half of the realm divided over two Targaryens, engaged in another pointless civil war while The Others prepare to take the world with ice, another Dance of the Dragons.
Why I Now Know This WILL Happen:
Today while looking around the So Spake Martin section of the Citadel I found
this
(halfway down the page) question that was asked of GRRM on November 22nd, 2003:
Quote
Fan: Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?
GRRM: The first dance or the second?
This was from around 2003 when George had recently changed his plan from a time skip to a the current plan.
Now the "first" Dance of the Dragons is clearly the one I described at the beginning. Now the second... unless I'm mistaken, we have only seen one Dance of the Dragons.
I established before that the title A Dance with Dragons was intended to be used as a title of a novel since the beginning, showing that it has some significance. George R. R. Martin has compared his plan for the series to planning a road trip; he knows what cities he will stop at but not the gas stations he will get fuel at, restaurants he will eat at, flat tires he will get, and strangers he will meet at pit stops on the way. An event of this magnitude I'm sure would have been planned from the beginning, just like the title A Dance with Dragons
We learn about Aegon in this book as well.
So we have two dragons who could potentially become enemies, with allies poised to take up their banners.
We have George R. R. Martin saying in 2003 that a second Dance of the Dragons will be the subject of a future book and we have yet to see a book realized on this subject.
We have the Targaryen precedent set that male heirs are in front of female heirs.
We have a power vacuum now that the Lord Regent, Kevan Lannister, is dead as well as Grand Maester Pycelle.
All of this points to something big happening between Dany and Aegon, at least in my opinion.