Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

[HajinShinobi]

Alright, so EmperorCow has brought something very important to my attention about Ayane's changes in 1.04.

"2H+K, 6K2K, PP6K2K, 3PK, 33P2K: Counter Hit and above advantage changed from +23 to +18F".

"it seems that the 2H+K nerf not only affects her frames in stun .. but also the fastest SE frames

this means that the 6P and standing P after it may no longer be as guaranteed as they are

in my opinion I think thats a massive nerf

and it will hurt her quite a bit

especially since she doesnt have many tools to expand stun"

She does have tools to stay in the threshold, but most are her mid punches, only one solid mid kick while facing forward (3K, BT6K for sitdown stun) for mix up, outside of stun > launch (while stun > launch is solid, it's not her only way to net her damage). She would be losing lows that generally are favorable for threshold for her, which is actually quite a blow to her tools for Critical stun threshold.

I wasn't thinking about that as much until he mentioned this to me, now that I actually think about it, it actually is a pretty nasty nerf. This makes her 6K2K less effective if 6K2K hits because players will just stagger out of it and she'll lose her reward. This is not good for the character at all.

If 2H+K, 6K2K, PP6K2K, 3PK, and 33P2K are all +18, this literally means that Ayane has nothing guaranteed after stun on the fastest stagger escape. Meaning there is no reward for landing a neutral or counter hit, at all. She won't be able to land a neutral P, 6P or 6K at all anymore as a mix up. That's bad.

What I propose we do about this; I'll send a tweet to Shimbori and Team Ninja on Twitter, then I will need all of you to retweet my tweet to both Shimbori and Team Ninja. EmperorCow said that if more Ayane players voice our opinions about this, then the possibility of that change will NOT actually stick and her +23 on stun will remain. Shimbori often listens to EP (he's the reason why Ayane has her back turned Critical Burst), so the chance of this being successful are quite high.

I want everyone to tweet this bit here; Ayane's 2H+K, 6K2K, PP6K2K, 3PK, 33P2K should retain their +23 advantage in stun. +18 would give Ayane no reward on stagger.

Retweet that to Shimbori AND Team Ninja, in seperate tweets. Please spread the word about this so that we'll have success folks. The character is truly fine as is, and has no actual reason to recieve anything that's going to hurt her game in the long run.

Their Twitter pages;

https://twitter.com/shimbori_x

https://twitter.com/TeamNINJAStudio

It would mean a lot to me if folks here could make the tweet/reweet about it, too.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Well, made it to my first DOA tournament yesterday. My goals:

• Top 8 placement
• Get on the stream (only the finals were supposed to be streamed)

So naturally, only 8 people sign up for DOA, and the other tourneys (NUNS3: Full Burst and TTT2) had simlarly low attendance, so the entire tournament gets streamed.

I lost both my matches 2-1, but I put Rig on the stream for about a minute during the loser's match. Now I'm just waiting on the next tournament. After all, I need to put Ein on stream next.

Glad you could make it out! You did good dude. There were some tough players there. I was kidding about attempting Ein on stream, but I think you should stick with Momiji because she seems to suit your style best. Your opponent caught on to your Rig habits and constantly punished you. Your Momiji did better. Remember to evaluate all of Momiji's moves for future matches (such as 2H+K or 3KP8 for instance).

I look forward to seeing you at future tourneys and good luck with your training. I'll try to level you and Sashi up!

Edit: @HajinShinobi Retweeted again for good measure.

 

[0VincentRayne0]

i think before we ask for more buffs or different changes on an already top tier character/character that has already gotten plenty of attention i think we should look at and focus more on the ones that haven't had the benefit of being put in a positive position. Eliot needs more tools not more damage. kokoro needs tracking (period). and these are just the small things that come immediately to mind. let alone what i've, most likely, overlooked. all in all we need this game to truly be balanced and bugs to be removed. not trying to talk it down but DOA5 has a ton of glitches and bugs that need to be taken care of. but they are overlooked and an unbalanced patch is around the corner. perhaps the last one we'll see for DOA5U? i don't know. i certainly hope not. some of the changes i agree with some i don't and some that i believe should be changed isn't even there.

basically, my eye kinda twitched when i saw "ayane should remain at +23 on a neutral hit low instead of +18" then i look at pretty much half the DOA cast and think, "Does this or this character even have stagger on neutral?" then i look at kokoro. "Nope! that took away hers." (using kokoro as a constant example cause it's just that easy.) genfu still gets a guaranteed launch off of a really quick guard break that i still have yet to see anyone react to when not looking for that sht with a search light and thermal vision. meanwhile kokoro gets robbed of another guaranteed option. see where i'm going with this? Team ninja definitely needs to put focus else where than on focusing on already well off characters.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

IMO, DOA5U's overall system mechanics need buffs so that it can be more solid and well-rounded than it is. In terms of character balance, Team Ninja shouldn't even be thinking about this until all glitches and imbalances get ironed out.

5U is still fairly young and it's too soon for a full-on balance patch. I say this because a lot of characters have not been explored fully yet and tech is always being uncovered. This is actually why I hate balance patches. They don't give the game a chance to grow. Viola getting buffed to the moon in SCV is a prime example of a balance patch being done wrong and an unknowingly solid character getting buffed to top tier status because of whiny-crybabies not exploring the character enough. Low and behold new tech got discovered.

Everyone in DOA is viable until all aspects have been fully explored. Just IMO, in 5U, I feel that only really Bass & Ein need some buffs and that GenFu needs some nerfs. This is just from my experience.

 

[HajinShinobi]

i think before we ask for more buffs or different changes on an already top tier character/character that has already gotten plenty of attention i think we should look at and focus more on the ones that haven't had the benefit of being put in a positive position. Eliot needs more tools not more damage. kokoro needs tracking (period). and these are just the small things that come immediately to mind. let alone what i've, most likely, overlooked. all in all we need this game to truly be balanced and bugs to be removed. not trying to talk it down but DOA5 has a ton of glitches and bugs that need to be taken care of. but they are overlooked and an unbalanced patch is around the corner. perhaps the last one we'll see for DOA5U? i don't know. i certainly hope not. some of the changes i agree with some i don't and some that i believe should be changed isn't even there.

basically, my eye kinda twitched when i saw "ayane should remain at +23 on a neutral hit low instead of +18" then i look at pretty much half the DOA cast and think, "Does this or this character even have stagger on neutral?" then i look at kokoro. "Nope! that took away hers." (using kokoro as a constant example cause it's just that easy.) genfu still gets a guaranteed launch off of a really quick guard break that i still have yet to see anyone react to when not looking for that sht with a search light and thermal vision. meanwhile kokoro gets robbed of another guaranteed option. see where i'm going with this? Team ninja definitely needs to put focus else where than on focusing on already well off characters.

It's typical of you to be all for any negatives that would involve Ayane, because you hate the character, lol.

My post is not requesting a nerf/buff, it's requesting to leave the character "as she already is". Ayane doesn't need anything else to increase/decrease her stature in the game. She does what she's supposed to do, she excels at what she does best (spacing and whiff punishment), she has weaknesses like everyone else, and is rewarded good damage that she has to work for. She's not ridiculous, she's not totally ground-breaking. She's well-balanced and solid, and should stay that way.

Meanwhile, you play a character who has an i7 throw that guarantees true mix up 50/50s, as throw punishment (Mila). You cannot complain about anyone's character when the character you play has the best i7 throw in the game. And has ridiculous "comeback" damage.

And, Kokoro is by no means bad in this game, at all. Kokoro players in the U.S. are bad, very bad, plain and simple. Because none of you guys are taking time out to figure out what else this character has to offer. All of you are just totally stuck on "Kokoro gets nerfed all the time, she can't do anything". This just says that all of you want the easy way out of things and want the character to win matches for you. Instead of players actually playing the character with a brain and maintaining a solid level of skill to obtain your wins.

This epidemic reminds me of the beginning of DOA Vanilla, when all Ayane players cried wolf about her losing her +7 frame advantage from her 66KK4 (IMO that was ridiculous and I'm happy it's +1). Because they cannot play a braindead route with her anymore. That's exactly what Kokoro players in the U.S. are doing.

No one wants to work hard for their wins anymore these days, that's the problem with this current generation of players. Majority just want their character to do the work for them, instead of displaying actual skill for it.

You think Ayane is easy to play and easy to win with? If that were the case, majority of our community's top players would pick her up and make it happen. Most don't see what I see in this character.

You think Genfu is really "that simple" to play with, then why is it that the only player that's winning with him at tournament majors is Sweet Revenge? When there are actually at least a handful of other players that play him, and do horribly. The same is said about some other Ayane players in the tournament scene.

I win with Ayane because I have what it takes to bring her that far. I don't auto-pilot behind my character choice, I'm the captain of this ship. As it should be for other players.