"Biologically male/female" - an outdated (and harmful) notion

[MntT77]

I'm not convinced. If a person's biology doesn't make them gay, straight or in between what does?

That's a different debate, and perhaps it's best to leave that can of worms unopened for now, no?

To be honest I've never used any of these things to tell guys and girls apart. And I bet I'm not the only one.

It's not a conscious thing. You generally read most people as either male or female pretty much straight away. I'm trying to re-adjust my line of thought so that I don't do that anymore, but it isn't easy...

Right, but he (or she, not specified by the user) is talking about "Biological" sex, which boils down to just male and female.

The thing is, 'male' and 'female' sexes aren't all that different, in many respects. Yes, on average 'males' have more testosterone than 'females', but there's a MASSIVE range of hormone levels amongst both groups. And hormones affect countless secondary sex characteristics like facial features, body hair... That's just one example.

When you look at male and female external genitalia, at the end of the day they're actually very similar.

 

[Norik]

I'm not convinced. If a person's biology doesn't make them gay, straight or in between what does?

Sexuality, sex and sexual identity are completely different things. This argument has nothing to do with sexual orientation (gay, lesbian, etc), but rather with sexual identity and the way we identify people.

The thing is, 'male' and 'female' sexes aren't all that different, in many respects. Yes, on average 'males' have more testosterone than 'females', but there's a MASSIVE range of hormone levels amongst both groups. And hormones affect countless secondary sex characteristics like facial features, body hair... That's just one example..

Biological sex is either male (inserts his genetic material to a female) or female (stores genetic material from the male and combines it with hers to create a new organism). That's what biological sex is. It doesn't matter how much testosterone you make, if you can reproduce by insemination of a female then you're a male. If you have a vagina and can get impregnated, then you're a female. If your hormones or genes put you in the ambiguous middle between the two, they you're intersex. Some people are born infertile, That's all there is as far as biological sex (which not the same as sexual identity).

When you look at male and female external genitalia, at the end of the day they're actually very similar.

Yes the are.

 

[MntT77]

Biological sex is either male (inserts his genetic material to a female) or female (stores genetic material from the male and combines it with hers to create a new organism). That's what biological sex is. It doesn't matter how much testosterone you make, if you can reproduce by insemination of a female then you're a male. If you have a vagina and can get impregnated, then you're a female. If your hormones or genes put you in the ambiguous middle between the two, they you're intersex. That's all there is as far as biological sex (which not the same as sexual identity).

Again, this definition relies on all people being able to procreate.

 

[Norik]

Again, this definition relies on all people being able to procreate.

You are right. I stand corrected.

Still. The line between male and female seems pretty clear to me. Even intersex people define themselves as either one.

 

[MntT77]

You are right. I stand corrected.

Still. The line between male and female seems pretty clear to me. Even intersex people define themselves as either one.

Many do, but not necessarily all.

I find that pictures are often helpful when trying to get your point across, so here's a picture of different levels of androgen insensitivity syndrome:

Now, at which point do you draw the line at male and female genitalia? And this is just one intersex condition among countless, which can lead to all sorts of genital configurations.

The reason this is a big deal is because medical surgery to 'correct' the condition can often severely harm the child in the long-term, and in most cases it isn't required to allow the patient to function normally.