Signia
[13] Hero
VF5's aesthetics take getting used to, and VF5 Vanilla just looks awful and some of the characters' movelists are so bland in comparison to VF5:R and VF5:FS. The fact is, no matter how good VF5:R and VF5:FS are, only japanese players will ever have access to them (let's face it, it's NEVER coming to consoles) so they're irrelevant.
However, VF5 Vanilla is still very deep, and it is the least gimmicky fighter I've ever seen, meaning it has little fake depth. There aren't a whole lot of threatening strings that have both mids and lows, movelists are complex but there are few moves which will make you think "ok, when would I EVER use that?"
Despite what people say, I think VF is the easiest 3D fighter to learn. Most of the combos and general execution of basic moves are pretty easy, and the system is intuitive, other than the oki. One of my favorite parts of the system is the fact that hitting G cancels the input buffer for strings so you accidentally continue strings.
Oh and there's a little bit of added complexity when you have to pay attention to which foot your character is putting forward, and whether you and your opponent are in "open" or "closed" stance. Like instead of always seeing your character's stomach on the 1P side like Soul Calibur and always having a weak side, some moves will change your character's footing and that will affect which sides your attacks will catch step and whether certain combo followups will connect.
The gimmickry of movelists, execution difficulty, and the impact of the open/closed stance mechanic differs with the character though.
The only problem imo is jab/low jab/elbow/throw options that every character has, and are too good, making the game revolve around them.
Jab is your character's fastest move (i9, i10, or i11) hits high it gives advantage on block. Dumb. Commence Jab buffer cancel Jab spam. The thing is, it gets beat by low jab (i12), your character's only INSTANT tech crouch move, which hits "special low" like a 2A and functions like a 2A that doesn't track (like Cervy's! only kidding). It crouches faster than 2G. Low jab does not go under "special highs," though. Since jab is so fast and you don't get a whole lot of +frames, you gotta 2P (which actually does give a lot of +frames! again like 2A: -6/+4/+7) pretty often which is lame because it's a silly crotch punch. This gets beaten by something everyone calls the "elbow" which your character's fastest mid at i14. Thankfully, String followups and knockdown effects actually differ with the character.
Next fastest move is usually the generic "mid kick" which is i16 so you have to elbow a lot as your mid in your mixup game. i16 moves don't even come into play against a smart player because they'll be fuzzy guarding to dodge the immediate throw at -6 or -7 anyway, and that's when you'd normally want to mid kick to stop the jab! The thing is, all these moves are steppable... but they're so damn safe that successful evades give you hardly any advantage (if any). Also, these three moves are you only moves you'll be using to stop throws... they'll just clash with the slower moves in VF5 and VF5:R.
I'm aware that's it's this way in Tekken... but at least it's easy to backstep those moves in Tekken. In VF5 though, they seem to have wonky hitboxes and are harder to backstep, especially jabs. Good luck whiff punishing them with that recovery, too.
The slower moves come into play when the other player sidesteps, as delayed and slow attacks punish evades because there's a "failed evade" period where the stepper is vulnerable, contrast to being able to guard at any time. Yes, the lack of the ability to Step G is a strong point here (but evades start on frame 1, so...). High combo starters begin at i14 and mid combo starters at i17. Full circulars (moves that catch step to both sides) will often be i17 as well. It's annoying how often you are interruptable in this game but it does make the game feel fast paced... I just wish there were more options to do so and they at least differed with the character.
About the throw clashing I mentioned earlier, it really decreases the depth because at -8 or higher, throw attempt is guaranteed unless they 2P. So it basically goes like this for almost all matchups:
+1: 2P beats everything except evades, backsteps, and jumping attacks, sorta.
+2: ditto, except elbow trades with 2P. But middleweight jabs interrupt elbow.
+3: lightweight jabs still interrupt elbow.
+4: you can try something other than an elbow because elbow now uninterruptable, but you still could get CH jabbed in -8, which is evade-throw escape time.
+5: this... just never happens
+6: you just blocked a 2P or most elbows, and now they have to fuzzy guard so they'll duck i12 throws but block i14 mids. They can't do anything else because they can't interrupt.
+7: ditto. they have to crouch dash in order to duck throws in time now.
+8: throw or do a i17 launcher if they try to 2P your throw. If they don't 2P they have to ETEG (evade throw escape guard option select) to maximize their defense.
+9: ditto
+10: ditto, or jab punish if you can
+11: ditto
+12: ditto...
+13: ditto, except now crotch punch finally isn't a viable option to stop throws... too bad you're getting jab punished anyway. You may be thinking, what about the other tech crouches, but there really aren't very many reliable TCs other than 2P
+14: medium size punish
+15: never happens
+16: usually the same punish as at +14
+17: big punish
any higher: usually the same punish
These moves:
i10/i11/i12 jab (P)
i12 low jab (2P)
i14 elbow (6P, 66P, or 3P)
i14 safe high combo starter (46P or something... ok not everyone has something like this)
i16 mid kick (3K)
i17 unsafe knee or mid combo starter (6K)
i12 Throws (though at -8 or higher, throw attempts are GUARANTEED)
...are pretty much the same for everyone. This makes the characters feel very much the same when in close range situations. The saving grace is the fact that the special stances are useful and transitioning attacks are actually good on block sometimes. And they look awesome and fluid. Sometimes they're part of their P string or they're fast enough to be usable at large advantages.
Idk maybe I'm exaggerating the influence of these moves because I'm not that good at VF (I just spent a summer looking at frame data while at a boring intern job) and I could be missing something. It's not like Tekken is much different, and single matchups in SCIV aren't much more complex than this move system. It's just that every matchup feels like a mirror match or like a sister vs. sister from SCIV in comparison.
That said, I still love the game and I love watching match videos.
This match is very exciting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwiehBWi47E&feature=player_embedded but it is VF:FS
However, VF5 Vanilla is still very deep, and it is the least gimmicky fighter I've ever seen, meaning it has little fake depth. There aren't a whole lot of threatening strings that have both mids and lows, movelists are complex but there are few moves which will make you think "ok, when would I EVER use that?"
Despite what people say, I think VF is the easiest 3D fighter to learn. Most of the combos and general execution of basic moves are pretty easy, and the system is intuitive, other than the oki. One of my favorite parts of the system is the fact that hitting G cancels the input buffer for strings so you accidentally continue strings.
Oh and there's a little bit of added complexity when you have to pay attention to which foot your character is putting forward, and whether you and your opponent are in "open" or "closed" stance. Like instead of always seeing your character's stomach on the 1P side like Soul Calibur and always having a weak side, some moves will change your character's footing and that will affect which sides your attacks will catch step and whether certain combo followups will connect.
The gimmickry of movelists, execution difficulty, and the impact of the open/closed stance mechanic differs with the character though.
The only problem imo is jab/low jab/elbow/throw options that every character has, and are too good, making the game revolve around them.
Jab is your character's fastest move (i9, i10, or i11) hits high it gives advantage on block. Dumb. Commence Jab buffer cancel Jab spam. The thing is, it gets beat by low jab (i12), your character's only INSTANT tech crouch move, which hits "special low" like a 2A and functions like a 2A that doesn't track (like Cervy's! only kidding). It crouches faster than 2G. Low jab does not go under "special highs," though. Since jab is so fast and you don't get a whole lot of +frames, you gotta 2P (which actually does give a lot of +frames! again like 2A: -6/+4/+7) pretty often which is lame because it's a silly crotch punch. This gets beaten by something everyone calls the "elbow" which your character's fastest mid at i14. Thankfully, String followups and knockdown effects actually differ with the character.
Next fastest move is usually the generic "mid kick" which is i16 so you have to elbow a lot as your mid in your mixup game. i16 moves don't even come into play against a smart player because they'll be fuzzy guarding to dodge the immediate throw at -6 or -7 anyway, and that's when you'd normally want to mid kick to stop the jab! The thing is, all these moves are steppable... but they're so damn safe that successful evades give you hardly any advantage (if any). Also, these three moves are you only moves you'll be using to stop throws... they'll just clash with the slower moves in VF5 and VF5:R.
I'm aware that's it's this way in Tekken... but at least it's easy to backstep those moves in Tekken. In VF5 though, they seem to have wonky hitboxes and are harder to backstep, especially jabs. Good luck whiff punishing them with that recovery, too.
The slower moves come into play when the other player sidesteps, as delayed and slow attacks punish evades because there's a "failed evade" period where the stepper is vulnerable, contrast to being able to guard at any time. Yes, the lack of the ability to Step G is a strong point here (but evades start on frame 1, so...). High combo starters begin at i14 and mid combo starters at i17. Full circulars (moves that catch step to both sides) will often be i17 as well. It's annoying how often you are interruptable in this game but it does make the game feel fast paced... I just wish there were more options to do so and they at least differed with the character.
About the throw clashing I mentioned earlier, it really decreases the depth because at -8 or higher, throw attempt is guaranteed unless they 2P. So it basically goes like this for almost all matchups:
+1: 2P beats everything except evades, backsteps, and jumping attacks, sorta.
+2: ditto, except elbow trades with 2P. But middleweight jabs interrupt elbow.
+3: lightweight jabs still interrupt elbow.
+4: you can try something other than an elbow because elbow now uninterruptable, but you still could get CH jabbed in -8, which is evade-throw escape time.
+5: this... just never happens
+6: you just blocked a 2P or most elbows, and now they have to fuzzy guard so they'll duck i12 throws but block i14 mids. They can't do anything else because they can't interrupt.
+7: ditto. they have to crouch dash in order to duck throws in time now.
+8: throw or do a i17 launcher if they try to 2P your throw. If they don't 2P they have to ETEG (evade throw escape guard option select) to maximize their defense.
+9: ditto
+10: ditto, or jab punish if you can
+11: ditto
+12: ditto...
+13: ditto, except now crotch punch finally isn't a viable option to stop throws... too bad you're getting jab punished anyway. You may be thinking, what about the other tech crouches, but there really aren't very many reliable TCs other than 2P
+14: medium size punish
+15: never happens
+16: usually the same punish as at +14
+17: big punish
any higher: usually the same punish
These moves:
i10/i11/i12 jab (P)
i12 low jab (2P)
i14 elbow (6P, 66P, or 3P)
i14 safe high combo starter (46P or something... ok not everyone has something like this)
i16 mid kick (3K)
i17 unsafe knee or mid combo starter (6K)
i12 Throws (though at -8 or higher, throw attempts are GUARANTEED)
...are pretty much the same for everyone. This makes the characters feel very much the same when in close range situations. The saving grace is the fact that the special stances are useful and transitioning attacks are actually good on block sometimes. And they look awesome and fluid. Sometimes they're part of their P string or they're fast enough to be usable at large advantages.
Idk maybe I'm exaggerating the influence of these moves because I'm not that good at VF (I just spent a summer looking at frame data while at a boring intern job) and I could be missing something. It's not like Tekken is much different, and single matchups in SCIV aren't much more complex than this move system. It's just that every matchup feels like a mirror match or like a sister vs. sister from SCIV in comparison.
That said, I still love the game and I love watching match videos.
This match is very exciting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwiehBWi47E&feature=player_embedded but it is VF:FS
