Best Fighting Game Except Soul Calibur
- Thread starter sheppard
- Start date
LP
Premium Member
"Don't talk about zoning because that's obvious.
Is it all about cross ups?(which I am guessing is kinda like a mixup) How do throws land exactly?
I know that Crouch block takes care of pretty much anything minus overheads. I know about anti airs, and such.
Really the biggest question I have is how do players break through their opponents defense?
And also what is the depth of the SF engine?"
That's a pretty ambiguous question, but I'll try to hit it.
In my honest opinion, SF4 has the fundamentals of most 2D fighting games, along with tight links, liberal use of invincibility frames (and easy reversals, but that's a story for another day), focus attacks and EX attacks, FADC, and delayable wake-up for its 'depth'.
Think of it in terms of a bunch of Amy's running about
Answering your specific questions:
It's not so much about any one thing (like any fighting game), but about exploiting either character or player flaws. Once you get into the game, most of the cross-ups viability is severely diminished due to how much they telegraph themselves. The ones that are left are the ones where, at the same distance and/or height, you can use an attack other than the one known to be effective in such a situation that your opponent has to block in the opposite direction due to hitbox altering and the ones where, because of jump-arch or positioning (such as Abel's roll), it's rather hard to tell which way you'll be facing on wakeup.
With crouch teching, which is dumb as hell to me, there are a couple of things to it, which mostly come from...baiting a crouch tech... If you space correctly, you can actually put your opponent into a situation where you can attempt to throw them or simply cause them to whiff their crouch tech (they have more options, but this is more of a tunnel visiony type thing), giving you the ability to punish their whiff with your footsies or causing them to be even more defensive somehow and reacting accordingly. Other than that, you can also attempt to bait the crouch tech and do a fast or meaty attack (attack whose active frames cause it to be into your opponent's hitbox on wakeup), which will, if done correctly, punish the crouch tech (if you look at any one of Valle's video's, which is what he's doing when he does his crouching strong, usually). A much less used technique (though Daigo used to use it a lot with Ex. Shoryuken, FADC Ultra) is to bait the crouch tech but do some type of attack with fast start-up and invincibility (there are thousands in SF4...). This isn't used to much because, if you time your crouch tech correctly, you can cover both options half of the time.
With all of that being said, crouch teching and overly defensive play are two of the reasons dive kicks are so deadly in that game. Except in games like Tekken, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, and now MvC3), throw/some attack has almost always been your biggest mixup (as in it gets your opponent to do something other than block or risk the consequences of continuing to throw). With crouch teching, are you able to to be completely defensive and, in some cases, even punishing your opponent for being silly enough to think they could try to get some oki. Welcome to dive-kick rape. Dive-kicks are unique in this game because they do what we, in SC world, would call tech jump (making them impervious to both lows and throws). So, if you attempt to crouch tech an opponent who does a well placed dive-kick, you get punished by that followed by whatever. On wake up, you can time your dive-kick so that it will be in your opponent's hitbox when they get up and/or give you time to block (or cause their attack to whiff) should they choose to do generic invincibility frame attack whatever. Simply put, dive kicks in Sf4 are one of the only effective ways to generate some type of offensive pressure while also making your opponent play an actual defensive game rather than simply holding db and wait for their turn to attack (and part of the reason why many people get raped by them).
As for depth in it, think of at as spacing (your zoning , 'footsies', and, sometimes, bad matchups) and a clashing of Amy's when close-combat takes place, with something with invincibility frames being your B+K.
SF4 is decent as it present the basics of most 2d fighters, but, in my opinion, is boring as hell and goes to show that relatively balanced =/= fun. Basically, it's a game that anybody looking to get into fighters can pick up and, at one level or another, understand, and take try to take their game to the next level while also retaining enough depth that a person decent at fighting games can be ahead of the power curve. Still, in my opinion, the game is so gimmicky and defensive that I don't really see how anybody could enjoy it for so long without regards to the nostalgia or community (hell, I'd even try to get into it again if they put Karin in it, made Sakura more fun, or if I started enjoying Ibuki again...or if they didn't shit on Cammy).
But, then again, this is coming from someone who likes BBCS, so yeah.
Is it all about cross ups?(which I am guessing is kinda like a mixup) How do throws land exactly?
I know that Crouch block takes care of pretty much anything minus overheads. I know about anti airs, and such.
Really the biggest question I have is how do players break through their opponents defense?
And also what is the depth of the SF engine?"
That's a pretty ambiguous question, but I'll try to hit it.
In my honest opinion, SF4 has the fundamentals of most 2D fighting games, along with tight links, liberal use of invincibility frames (and easy reversals, but that's a story for another day), focus attacks and EX attacks, FADC, and delayable wake-up for its 'depth'.
Think of it in terms of a bunch of Amy's running about
Answering your specific questions:
It's not so much about any one thing (like any fighting game), but about exploiting either character or player flaws. Once you get into the game, most of the cross-ups viability is severely diminished due to how much they telegraph themselves. The ones that are left are the ones where, at the same distance and/or height, you can use an attack other than the one known to be effective in such a situation that your opponent has to block in the opposite direction due to hitbox altering and the ones where, because of jump-arch or positioning (such as Abel's roll), it's rather hard to tell which way you'll be facing on wakeup.
With crouch teching, which is dumb as hell to me, there are a couple of things to it, which mostly come from...baiting a crouch tech... If you space correctly, you can actually put your opponent into a situation where you can attempt to throw them or simply cause them to whiff their crouch tech (they have more options, but this is more of a tunnel visiony type thing), giving you the ability to punish their whiff with your footsies or causing them to be even more defensive somehow and reacting accordingly. Other than that, you can also attempt to bait the crouch tech and do a fast or meaty attack (attack whose active frames cause it to be into your opponent's hitbox on wakeup), which will, if done correctly, punish the crouch tech (if you look at any one of Valle's video's, which is what he's doing when he does his crouching strong, usually). A much less used technique (though Daigo used to use it a lot with Ex. Shoryuken, FADC Ultra) is to bait the crouch tech but do some type of attack with fast start-up and invincibility (there are thousands in SF4...). This isn't used to much because, if you time your crouch tech correctly, you can cover both options half of the time.
With all of that being said, crouch teching and overly defensive play are two of the reasons dive kicks are so deadly in that game. Except in games like Tekken, BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, and now MvC3), throw/some attack has almost always been your biggest mixup (as in it gets your opponent to do something other than block or risk the consequences of continuing to throw). With crouch teching, are you able to to be completely defensive and, in some cases, even punishing your opponent for being silly enough to think they could try to get some oki. Welcome to dive-kick rape. Dive-kicks are unique in this game because they do what we, in SC world, would call tech jump (making them impervious to both lows and throws). So, if you attempt to crouch tech an opponent who does a well placed dive-kick, you get punished by that followed by whatever. On wake up, you can time your dive-kick so that it will be in your opponent's hitbox when they get up and/or give you time to block (or cause their attack to whiff) should they choose to do generic invincibility frame attack whatever. Simply put, dive kicks in Sf4 are one of the only effective ways to generate some type of offensive pressure while also making your opponent play an actual defensive game rather than simply holding db and wait for their turn to attack (and part of the reason why many people get raped by them).
As for depth in it, think of at as spacing (your zoning , 'footsies', and, sometimes, bad matchups) and a clashing of Amy's when close-combat takes place, with something with invincibility frames being your B+K.
SF4 is decent as it present the basics of most 2d fighters, but, in my opinion, is boring as hell and goes to show that relatively balanced =/= fun. Basically, it's a game that anybody looking to get into fighters can pick up and, at one level or another, understand, and take try to take their game to the next level while also retaining enough depth that a person decent at fighting games can be ahead of the power curve. Still, in my opinion, the game is so gimmicky and defensive that I don't really see how anybody could enjoy it for so long without regards to the nostalgia or community (hell, I'd even try to get into it again if they put Karin in it, made Sakura more fun, or if I started enjoying Ibuki again...or if they didn't shit on Cammy).
But, then again, this is coming from someone who likes BBCS, so yeah.
D.I.N.O
[11] Champion
Whoa at paragraphs....
Arctic Komodo knows wassup...
Another Great fighter
PROJECT JUSITCE ie RIVAL SCHOOLS 3!!!
This IS the quintessential 2-d meets 3-d meets super jump fighter. Everything you've wished for in a Fighter is here (minus Tag, but you can switch between rounds)
Arctic Komodo knows wassup...
Another Great fighter
PROJECT JUSITCE ie RIVAL SCHOOLS 3!!!
This IS the quintessential 2-d meets 3-d meets super jump fighter. Everything you've wished for in a Fighter is here (minus Tag, but you can switch between rounds)
