ShenOu
[10] Knight
Wow its taken me forever to see this thread.
First things first, Swithin, fantastic post. I really like the perspective you brought to the table, you've contributed a lot. Welcome to 8wr.
Papy_Danone: I'm presuming you're referring to the thread in the Algol forum.
As an Algol player and a Kilik player.. As well as someone who played against Hilde for the first 4 months of this game's life.. I've had more than enough of people telling me that characters I play are cheap and should be banned. Or characters I don't have problems dealing with are broken and should be banned.. (Also, they just say I suck because I don't play against a Hilde good enough to abuse her broke-ness).
Long story short, when you want to speak NEGATIVELY about a character... The worse place to start is the bloody Soul Arena FOR that character. That aside, I see where you're coming from and I'd like to re-use Fuzion's 3-second Analogy.
If let's say you were to start playing Basketball last weekend, and you felt that the 3-second rule was bullshit. You decide to bring it up amongst a community who's been for it for the longest time. But they ignore you. Why? Not because they think you suck (although in this situation I would label you a whiner as well) but because you are kicking on a dead horse. You're late to the party, don't complain that there isn't any beer left. If it were an overwhelming problem, and there is enough backing and evidence to support a change, would the NBA implement the change immediately? Or wait till the end of the season? The reasoning behind the whole "No ban talk till after evo/nats" is somewhere along these lines. Forgive me if my analogy is iffy, I'm trying to adapt it to Fuzion's.
That being said, I agree with those that say an avenue SHOULD be opened up for people to discuss in a CIVIL manner. Can this avenue be found on 8wr? I don't see a problem. I even cleaned up the original "Serious Thread" that SU brought up, removing all the troll posts.. (Here's some fun statistics, I deleted 42 out of 62 posts from that thread, 60% bullshit saturation) Hey! It looks like a pretty healthy discussion, my "thread closed" post looks dumb as hell too, now that there isn't 10 posts of namecalling and trolling above it. Personally though, I think it would be fruitless, because such discussion requires evidence to back it up, we're talking about changing the game mechanics here.
Personal Opinion doesn't cut it as Evidence, I'd want to see tournament results, gameplay footage from events where every player and spectator can be assured that those events were graced by players who MATTERED. All we've been getting from the countless threads and posts is Personal Opinion. Evidence was weak, arguments were made using footage of people losing to Hilde or Algol, when they had never played against those characters before. Where would we get such footage from? Monthlys? Regardless of how good the standard of play is, Monthly's will always be considered "small" to the eyes of a lot of people. That's only going to bring up more comments like "So and So doesn't know how to play.. These are just results from "small" tournaments"..
How about Regionals? Nationals? Evo? I would like to see evidence coming from such events myself.
When can we get this evidence? Oh yeah, we'll have to wait for Regionals/Nationals/Evo to pass eh?
First things first, Swithin, fantastic post. I really like the perspective you brought to the table, you've contributed a lot. Welcome to 8wr.
Papy_Danone: I'm presuming you're referring to the thread in the Algol forum.
As an Algol player and a Kilik player.. As well as someone who played against Hilde for the first 4 months of this game's life.. I've had more than enough of people telling me that characters I play are cheap and should be banned. Or characters I don't have problems dealing with are broken and should be banned.. (Also, they just say I suck because I don't play against a Hilde good enough to abuse her broke-ness).
Long story short, when you want to speak NEGATIVELY about a character... The worse place to start is the bloody Soul Arena FOR that character. That aside, I see where you're coming from and I'd like to re-use Fuzion's 3-second Analogy.
If let's say you were to start playing Basketball last weekend, and you felt that the 3-second rule was bullshit. You decide to bring it up amongst a community who's been for it for the longest time. But they ignore you. Why? Not because they think you suck (although in this situation I would label you a whiner as well) but because you are kicking on a dead horse. You're late to the party, don't complain that there isn't any beer left. If it were an overwhelming problem, and there is enough backing and evidence to support a change, would the NBA implement the change immediately? Or wait till the end of the season? The reasoning behind the whole "No ban talk till after evo/nats" is somewhere along these lines. Forgive me if my analogy is iffy, I'm trying to adapt it to Fuzion's.
That being said, I agree with those that say an avenue SHOULD be opened up for people to discuss in a CIVIL manner. Can this avenue be found on 8wr? I don't see a problem. I even cleaned up the original "Serious Thread" that SU brought up, removing all the troll posts.. (Here's some fun statistics, I deleted 42 out of 62 posts from that thread, 60% bullshit saturation) Hey! It looks like a pretty healthy discussion, my "thread closed" post looks dumb as hell too, now that there isn't 10 posts of namecalling and trolling above it. Personally though, I think it would be fruitless, because such discussion requires evidence to back it up, we're talking about changing the game mechanics here.
Personal Opinion doesn't cut it as Evidence, I'd want to see tournament results, gameplay footage from events where every player and spectator can be assured that those events were graced by players who MATTERED. All we've been getting from the countless threads and posts is Personal Opinion. Evidence was weak, arguments were made using footage of people losing to Hilde or Algol, when they had never played against those characters before. Where would we get such footage from? Monthlys? Regardless of how good the standard of play is, Monthly's will always be considered "small" to the eyes of a lot of people. That's only going to bring up more comments like "So and So doesn't know how to play.. These are just results from "small" tournaments"..
How about Regionals? Nationals? Evo? I would like to see evidence coming from such events myself.
When can we get this evidence? Oh yeah, we'll have to wait for Regionals/Nationals/Evo to pass eh?
