Abusive moderation on this site
- Thread starter Papy_Danone
- Start date
JetSetDizzy
[11] Champion
Lol the Algol points in the thread you referenced were very shallow and totally subjective. You say if you start a combo you earned it and there should not be a way to interupt the combo or its unfair. Where did you pull this nonsensical rule from? Plenty of other games have ways to interupt combos. Testament's nets in GG, Dizzy's fish in GG, some of Carl's puppet moves in BB, burst in GG BB and TvC, Rolento's super that they always use in combo vids to reset combos from CVS2, Heck shaking stuns and using super armor moves could be thrown in with that logic. You didn't earn the combo if you didn't pay enough attention to where the bubble was. Heck you could do the same thing back to him with a reflected bubble.
There was nothing abusive about the modderation in the thread you specified.
There was nothing abusive about the modderation in the thread you specified.
mikosu
Goderator of pink hearts
So this is about the Hilde/Algol threads getting closed? Can't say I know of any power abuse since I don't watch everyone. My suggestion is to turn this into the Hilde/Algol discussion thread so whoever wants to can vent. Anyone annoyed by the topic doesn't have to read. I personally am fine with Hilde. I'm a sucker for a challenge.
IgnisPhaseOne
[09] Warrior
What do you want? More of these threads polluting our boards?
If you flood the forums with "Ban Hilde/Algol" threads, will it actually happen?
If we counter-flood with "Banning Hilde/Algol is for Noobs" threads, will you guys actually learn how to play?
If every thread contains one part of the discussion, will both sides ever get to see all the information in one place, the WHOLE PURPOSE of this site?
If one thread bloats up with too much discussion and trolling, will everyone ignore it because we've lost our heads in emotion when facts/evidence are key here?
If moderators are lax, do you want trolls, rudeness, idiocy, lies, deceit running rampant on the boards?
If the moderators are too strict, do you only want the most brilliant, best, perfect, arrogant players' posts to be recognized?
THERE IS A TRADE-OFF. ALWAYS.
You do not get what you want, all the time. You don't. I have my own ideas of what I want in my many dichotamies (sp) that I presented up there. But it's not my place to decide; I don't run this forum. Our community does.
And, sometimes, communities don't trust their mods, and mods don't trust their communities. And there's always reason. But nobody is going to get what they want, all the time, take your happy medium of 4-5 different threads that degenerate into Hilde/Algol ban threads, and don't complain when the rest of the community doesn't want to see 10 or 12 of the threads. We'll respect the fact that our community thinks it's important to bring Hilde/Algol ban discussions in the 4-5 threads where they don't belong (in non "BanHildeAlgol" threads), and you leave the leaders of this community alone when they've had enough of you making even more threads about the same subject in derailed threads all over the forum.
*sigh* We're all tired of dealing with the same shit, the bazillion threads, the derailments, the whining, all of it. That's why we're so up tight. Notice how it used to be civil a few months ago? A few months is a long time guys; everyone's on edge, we all need to take chill pills (myself included, look at this goddamned post!) and just, let nationals finish. We can change the rules afterwards, we can have more discussions afterwards.
Let's just be a community. Problems happen, it'll get dealt with.
If you flood the forums with "Ban Hilde/Algol" threads, will it actually happen?
If we counter-flood with "Banning Hilde/Algol is for Noobs" threads, will you guys actually learn how to play?
If every thread contains one part of the discussion, will both sides ever get to see all the information in one place, the WHOLE PURPOSE of this site?
If one thread bloats up with too much discussion and trolling, will everyone ignore it because we've lost our heads in emotion when facts/evidence are key here?
If moderators are lax, do you want trolls, rudeness, idiocy, lies, deceit running rampant on the boards?
If the moderators are too strict, do you only want the most brilliant, best, perfect, arrogant players' posts to be recognized?
THERE IS A TRADE-OFF. ALWAYS.
You do not get what you want, all the time. You don't. I have my own ideas of what I want in my many dichotamies (sp) that I presented up there. But it's not my place to decide; I don't run this forum. Our community does.
And, sometimes, communities don't trust their mods, and mods don't trust their communities. And there's always reason. But nobody is going to get what they want, all the time, take your happy medium of 4-5 different threads that degenerate into Hilde/Algol ban threads, and don't complain when the rest of the community doesn't want to see 10 or 12 of the threads. We'll respect the fact that our community thinks it's important to bring Hilde/Algol ban discussions in the 4-5 threads where they don't belong (in non "BanHildeAlgol" threads), and you leave the leaders of this community alone when they've had enough of you making even more threads about the same subject in derailed threads all over the forum.
*sigh* We're all tired of dealing with the same shit, the bazillion threads, the derailments, the whining, all of it. That's why we're so up tight. Notice how it used to be civil a few months ago? A few months is a long time guys; everyone's on edge, we all need to take chill pills (myself included, look at this goddamned post!) and just, let nationals finish. We can change the rules afterwards, we can have more discussions afterwards.
Let's just be a community. Problems happen, it'll get dealt with.
Hey everybody. I'm a long-time sc.com/caliburforum lurker who pretty much stopped checking online when caliburforum got emptied (also I've been playing less since I returned to university.) I know I have no reputation here, but I've spent the last few days catching up on the forum. For what it's worth, I really do consider myself to be even more outside the community than I used to be: I haven't played enough recently to offer anyone solid advice, I don't go to tournies or meet-ups (I really should start...) At this point, I *seriously* have no opinion on what's ban-worthy or not given the current climate. In a week that might be different, but it's not coloring my opinion one way or the other right now.
Why am I choosing this as my first post? Because I noticed what Papy's talking about doing the speed-read of the board the last couple days. This issue sticks out, and even for a lurker it keeps getting in the way of actual business. Is the moderation 'abusive'? Nah, I don't think so. The problem is something else.
Something-Unique opened his Algol/Hilde thread the other day with the obvious intent to reset the conversation with civility; he had a point (low turnout,) he had supportive evidence (going to the tournies,) and he didn't open up with an agenda. I've been reading the site for three days, and from what I've seen it's clear to *everyone* involved that there won't be any community-wide change in rules until after Nats. Ok, fine, point taken - given the general opinion of everyone around, SU obviously didn't think his repeated opening of these threads would actually cause a policy-reversal. I don't want to start guessing at what people "mean" to do, but if I had to guess in the majority of these conversations I see three things happening repeatedly:
1.) A person wants to vent about Algol/Hilde/whatever. A thread opens up where people vent. Eventually insults are traded because somone disagrees (either on a mechanical or ideological level.) The anti-Algol/Hilde posters are driven by a desire to express their frustration not at the community rules, but at the actual state of the game (not the metagame, the video game.) They're mostly saying "the game would be better if..." (useless, I know, but that's what venting's about.) Someone retorts with "but it's not going to magically change, so deal with it / you suck at the game if you can't beat <whomever>." This completely dismisses the original posters' observations and feelings. I mean, sure, it's useless talk, but when people start actually punking the complainers, they're doing two things: they're changing the conversation from one about the game to one about the posters (getting called out as a 'pussy' sucks,) and they're forcing the same conversation to go elsewhere. I mean, people are annoyed right now by Algol and Hilde. Repeating "nothing will change until after Nats" won't make people want to talk about it less.
2.) The above situation creates an "underdog" effect. Something-Unique wasn't posting mindlessly, the way I see it he was being more of a whistle-blower. "Ok, so we're not going to change rules until after Nats... but what if my local tournies go from 30-40 man attendance two months ago to maybe 5 people two months from now, and the only negative feedback is on this issue? What then?" That's a legitimate concern if unexaggerated (it sounds unlikely to me, but I have no idea if it's that bad.) And it's not whining. That's the key issue there: sure, the same kind of cattiness eventually entered that thread as every other - and that was the problem. The originating issue really could have been explored further - and the thread probably shouldn't have been closed on the basis of "old argument". The offending posts should have been excised with strictness, and if the original topic actually engendered a healthy conversation it would have continued naturally. If not, it would have died naturally. By using the broad anti-whining stick on it, it just furthered the sense of bias against any conversation (legitimate or otherwise) that includes as a component the Algol/Hilde issue.
3.) I really haven't noticed authority coming down on the equally numerous replies calling out the "scrubs" who want to complain. It's totally safe to continue (and even reset) the whole damn conversation by insulting/dismissing the anti-Algol/Hilde crowd. The threads don't go on because everybody involved keeps agreeing with each other enthusiastically, they go on when someone comes in and stirs the pot by announcing how irrelevent the discussion is. I don't know who this could be fun for, and I totally respect those who are simply trying to get this whole headache to end - but that's not the way to end it. This conversation isn't totally cluttering the boards right now, but it's expanding because there is that back and forth. Just give the people who want to vent a forum to do it, don't close it, and stop condemning the "whiners" for reacting when they're repeatedly poked with impunity by agitators who really shouldn't read the thread to begin with if it bothers them that much.
To sum up, I think all the bitch-slapping is extremely counter-productive. Closing the "Is Algol Cheap?" thread will only cause people to post the same damn things elsewhere on the board, where they will have 20 people replying telling them that they suck or having a mod close the thread. It's not a huge issue yet, but it's chaff when it's just littered all over the place. The way to stop its spread is to give it a safe partition, and come down equally on the provocateurs from both sides of the aisle when it comes up in places it shouldn't be.
Anyway, if I've offended anyone, I'm sorry. I know that I don't really have a name or a place here yet, but I'm sure I'm not the only lurker who comes here to get solid info on the game, so consider this an outsider's opinion: seeing this same thing come up in different places is a bit of a turn-off. I get what everybody's saying, and it's not anyone's opinions that bother me; it's the level of noise due to the constant give and take between posters.
Why am I choosing this as my first post? Because I noticed what Papy's talking about doing the speed-read of the board the last couple days. This issue sticks out, and even for a lurker it keeps getting in the way of actual business. Is the moderation 'abusive'? Nah, I don't think so. The problem is something else.
Something-Unique opened his Algol/Hilde thread the other day with the obvious intent to reset the conversation with civility; he had a point (low turnout,) he had supportive evidence (going to the tournies,) and he didn't open up with an agenda. I've been reading the site for three days, and from what I've seen it's clear to *everyone* involved that there won't be any community-wide change in rules until after Nats. Ok, fine, point taken - given the general opinion of everyone around, SU obviously didn't think his repeated opening of these threads would actually cause a policy-reversal. I don't want to start guessing at what people "mean" to do, but if I had to guess in the majority of these conversations I see three things happening repeatedly:
1.) A person wants to vent about Algol/Hilde/whatever. A thread opens up where people vent. Eventually insults are traded because somone disagrees (either on a mechanical or ideological level.) The anti-Algol/Hilde posters are driven by a desire to express their frustration not at the community rules, but at the actual state of the game (not the metagame, the video game.) They're mostly saying "the game would be better if..." (useless, I know, but that's what venting's about.) Someone retorts with "but it's not going to magically change, so deal with it / you suck at the game if you can't beat <whomever>." This completely dismisses the original posters' observations and feelings. I mean, sure, it's useless talk, but when people start actually punking the complainers, they're doing two things: they're changing the conversation from one about the game to one about the posters (getting called out as a 'pussy' sucks,) and they're forcing the same conversation to go elsewhere. I mean, people are annoyed right now by Algol and Hilde. Repeating "nothing will change until after Nats" won't make people want to talk about it less.
2.) The above situation creates an "underdog" effect. Something-Unique wasn't posting mindlessly, the way I see it he was being more of a whistle-blower. "Ok, so we're not going to change rules until after Nats... but what if my local tournies go from 30-40 man attendance two months ago to maybe 5 people two months from now, and the only negative feedback is on this issue? What then?" That's a legitimate concern if unexaggerated (it sounds unlikely to me, but I have no idea if it's that bad.) And it's not whining. That's the key issue there: sure, the same kind of cattiness eventually entered that thread as every other - and that was the problem. The originating issue really could have been explored further - and the thread probably shouldn't have been closed on the basis of "old argument". The offending posts should have been excised with strictness, and if the original topic actually engendered a healthy conversation it would have continued naturally. If not, it would have died naturally. By using the broad anti-whining stick on it, it just furthered the sense of bias against any conversation (legitimate or otherwise) that includes as a component the Algol/Hilde issue.
3.) I really haven't noticed authority coming down on the equally numerous replies calling out the "scrubs" who want to complain. It's totally safe to continue (and even reset) the whole damn conversation by insulting/dismissing the anti-Algol/Hilde crowd. The threads don't go on because everybody involved keeps agreeing with each other enthusiastically, they go on when someone comes in and stirs the pot by announcing how irrelevent the discussion is. I don't know who this could be fun for, and I totally respect those who are simply trying to get this whole headache to end - but that's not the way to end it. This conversation isn't totally cluttering the boards right now, but it's expanding because there is that back and forth. Just give the people who want to vent a forum to do it, don't close it, and stop condemning the "whiners" for reacting when they're repeatedly poked with impunity by agitators who really shouldn't read the thread to begin with if it bothers them that much.
To sum up, I think all the bitch-slapping is extremely counter-productive. Closing the "Is Algol Cheap?" thread will only cause people to post the same damn things elsewhere on the board, where they will have 20 people replying telling them that they suck or having a mod close the thread. It's not a huge issue yet, but it's chaff when it's just littered all over the place. The way to stop its spread is to give it a safe partition, and come down equally on the provocateurs from both sides of the aisle when it comes up in places it shouldn't be.
Anyway, if I've offended anyone, I'm sorry. I know that I don't really have a name or a place here yet, but I'm sure I'm not the only lurker who comes here to get solid info on the game, so consider this an outsider's opinion: seeing this same thing come up in different places is a bit of a turn-off. I get what everybody's saying, and it's not anyone's opinions that bother me; it's the level of noise due to the constant give and take between posters.