Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3

pootytang9 said:
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I'm pretty sure I'm not trolling, and I didn't insult your intelligence, value of your life, or tell you to go die...I just don't think you have a clue about Vergil, and I corrected you. That's basically it, so I don't get why you're offended. There's just quite a difference between good Vergils and the ones you're used to playing, and this is what I'm trying to inform you of. If you have a problem with someone trying to help you learn what higher levels of the game are about, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Just a few more things btw:
"Whether they break the grab or not, you'll have the advantage"
Breaking a grab puts both players at neutral, or ±0 frames. No one is on frame advantage. I've mashed people out of their own throws, only to beat them out with a standing H because we were both trying to get in another throw.

"Vergil has shitty recovery, you should notice and exploit it"
The only "shitty" recovery is on his normals, most noticeably cr.H, 6H, and st.H, but even these aren't much of a problem. Good blockstrings are absolutely key to playing Vergil. Judgment Cut is +8 on block, so this should be a staple blockstring, as no characters except Cap Am and Dorm can punish it without using meter. And even then, you can just use 623L~H, which is pretty safe due to pushback, if I remember correctly. Rapid Slash can also be cancelled into Devil Trigger for safety, which sets up some really nice 50/50s.

"Sword mixups aren't all that different"
Generally speaking, swords make ordinary mixups impossible to block on reaction, because of the active frames on Swords, especially after teleports. They also give Vergil legit jump-in setups. It's pretty ridiculous.

"Swords don't stop all projectiles, and spending meter to deal with swords is worth it"
The first part is true, but the second part not so much. Unless that meter is going to kill Vergil, then it's not really worth it. Especially considering how much of a resource meter is in this game, and much harder to get, spending it just to get rid of Swords isn't a good idea. Like I said, I would take the trade off of someone spending 1-2 meters just to counter my Swords, because they're wasting they're resources. Doom's Plasma Beam is the most durable in the game next to Dante's Devil Trigger beam (Which is the best in the game, hands down), so I can see swords losing to that. But, for example, Hawkeye arrows + Taskmaster assist will get eaten by Swords. With Swords on, characters like Hawkeye get pretty free.

Here's my advice: Play better Vergils.
 
Cosmic_Castaway said:
stuff.
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i understand what you were are to say, but whether you were trying to be a douche or not, your post suggested others wise......

everything u said , suchs as "inform", or giving me advice, telling me the difference between shitty or non shitty virgils...... should have been stated in the previous post, doing what you did, by highlighting individual sentences and shutting each one out with negative and non constructive critics was what made you come off as a dick and the unnecassery douchesness(whether intended or not) pissed me off.

i wasnt pissed off that you corrected me(rather i prefer ppl to correct me, help to improve my game), or that i took anything you say as an insult(which i wasnt insulted), what pissed me off was i was helping some dude out with what i knew and understand about virgil, then all of a sudden some dude just unnecessarily trolls me out of no where.......

my advice to you.......... please be clear on what you are trying to say

yes it is true that breaking the grab is a 50/50 situation, but theres other factors besides frame which judge the advantage, such as getting the grab +rewards on succes, the break of opponents momentum, time to reposition your self, etc....

virgils normals is what makes virgil unsafe, normaly virgils normals have strong pushback, which keeps him out of range of most characters quickest punishs, but with proper timing,patience and observation, many characters can cut between virgils strings...most noticibly zero and x-23 a great for those situations with virgil. judement cut is an excellent attack on block, but one whiffed judgement cut and he is a sitting duck for characters who can get in on him in the time.

the thing with virgil and sword dance, is that though it may be impossible to block on reaction, his moves are forcasted so you can make a safe prediction. alot of virgils attacks that allow him to close space have a generaly long start up time, such as his tele, rapid dash, and judgement cut. his teles allow virgil to setup brilliant mix ups with the swords. but for players with decent reaction and observation, as soon virgils starts to perform his tele animations, you could possible evade his mix up with a well timed jump(depending on what assist the virgil player is using).


whats your suggestion on dealing with virgil?
 
pootytang9 said:
what pissed me off was i was helping some dude out with what i knew and understand about virgil, then all of a sudden some dude just unnecessarily trolls me out of no where.......

my advice to you.......... please be clear on what you are trying to say
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Stuff you misinterpreted ≠ trolling

You could have just asked what I meant, you know. Or looked through some of my other posts in the thread. All I do is post info and help people.

Anyway:
Other factors for advantage after throw
If you can consistently take advantage of break situations after a throw, that's just you being a better player. Nothing to do with the character.

Vergil being unsafe (Normals + Judgment)
I'm talking about cancelling normals into Judgment Cut. As long as you do Judgment Cut L after a blockstring, it never whiffs. Oh, and Rising Sun into Down Trick(623L~H) is completely safe on block. If a Vergil's just doing raw normals for their blockstring, they really don't know what they're doing, and the matchup's irrelevant. And a whiffed Judgment Cut isn't that bad, as long as your opponent is outside the range between you and the Cut. If you do L, and they're at M distance, whatever. If you do H and they're at M distance, then yeah, you're screwed. Cut keeps Wolverine out for free most of the time, btw (For anyone still running into Wolverines online). All this being said, Zero's pretty darn good against Vergil, mostly because he bodies up most of the cast. Vergil vs. Zero is probably 4-6 in Zero's favor, tbh. X-23 vs. Vergil is probably the reverse though, 6-4 in Vergil's favor. Round Trip and Judgment Cut puts the matchup at 5-5, while Swords and Devil Trigger shenanigans give him an edge.

Startup and Telegraphs on Vergil's moves
Judgment Cut and Rapid Slash have pretty similar looking startups, so you can mix them up pretty effectively, but mostly during resets. And yeah, I guess you could super jump out of the teleport mixups. I don't teleport as much as most Vergils running around (main characters are Dante, Viper, Vergil, and Strider, and Vergil's usually in the second or third spot), so that's really not a problem for me, nor has it occurred to me. Running away from him in that sense (Not hurling projectiles at him) is a pretty good option, but as long as Vergil has some extra meter on deck, they can bring you down to earth with Crown of Swords (Which I have yet to see used in a tournament match, shame).

My Vergil's pretty much all about controlling space, (and I don't think Vergil needs teleports to do that, they just help) as well as the advantages gained by Devil Trigger. If regular Vergil had the same properties as Devil Trigger Vergil, he'd be undeniably top 5, possibly top 3 (Viper, Dante, Vergil would be my top 3 at that point).
 
If Vergil has swords and he teleports in then its GG's! I'm tempted to learn him just so I can see how people deal with him.

Oh what are your guy's thoughts on Skrull? I started seeing a few more skrulls on the internets now that Mr.Nasty showed his potential.
 
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